# Grandfathering and transitional provisions **URL:** \ **Category:** Maritime Training & Licensing\ **Created:** [January 24, 2014, 6:19am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958 "2014-01-24T06:19:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![coldcreepin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@coldcreepin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/coldcreepin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 6:19am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/1 "2014-01-24T06:19:57Z")
Anyone else reading this today? Here is highlights I find interesting or start a debate on. 1.The changes replace the ability to obtain an endorsement by submitting proof of service as able seamen, boatswain, quartermaster, or equivalent position, as appropriate, with proof of service while performing bridge watchkeeping duties under the supervision of the master or another qualified officer. So you just need to perform bridge duties no serve as AB to qualify for 3rd Mate or Mate 500/1600? 1. Beginning March 24, 2014, applicants for master or mate of unlimited tonnage may obtain service on vessels of 100 GRT or more instead of 200 GRT. So there will be a lot more applications for 3rd Mate with a huge tonnage limitation. 1. Beginning March 24, 2014, service on Great Lakes and inland waters will meet service requirements for near coastal and oceans endorsements as provided in 46 CFR 10.232 and 11.401. The Coast Guard will apply this recognition of Great Lakes service for up to 100% of the total service required for all deck officer endorsements valid for near coastal and/or oceans waters notwithstanding any limitations on the total of Great Lakes or inland service contained in the service requirements for the specific endorsement. 46 CFR 11.211(b)(1). You can use Great Lakes time towards oceans endorsment, I sailed many years on the great lakes and was at a disadvantage when I wanted to get my Oceans endorsment, this will help people who were in my shoes a few years ago. 4.STCW DECK ENDORSEMENTS 500GRT Endorsement has limitation for vessels of 500 GT or More and Less Than 3,000 GT. Which is the same STCW endorsment associated with a 1600GRT, so to be clear a master 500GRT has the same GT/STCW weight as a 1600GRT after 24, March 2014. This seem to be pretty big changes. ---
**Author:** ![Jemplayer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jemplayer/32/523_2.png) [@Jemplayer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Jemplayer)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/2 "2014-01-24T07:28:49Z")
I assume you’re talking about the latest NVIC. [http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcements/pdfs/NVIC\_Grandfathering\_final\_with%20Encls\_20140122.pdf](http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcements/pdfs/NVIC_Grandfathering_final_with%20Encls_20140122.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![coldcreepin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@coldcreepin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/coldcreepin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:48am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/3 "2014-01-24T07:48:21Z")
USCG.mil/nmc on 01/23/2014 [http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcements/pdfs/NVIC\_Grandfathering\_final\_with%20Encls\_20140122.pdf](http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/announcements/pdfs/NVIC_Grandfathering_final_with%20Encls_20140122.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:11am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/4 "2014-01-24T08:11:04Z")
I haven’t really had time to digest many of the changes yet. I am really glad to see two changes that are long overdue: 1. Full credit for seatime over 100 tons; and 2. Partial credit on a 2 for 1 basis up to 50% of required seatime for the combined tonnage of both the tug and barge. However, there is some bad news. It looks like anyone who had a license before 2001, or who works in the oil field, is going to be able to easily get Master of Towing added to their license. Damn. This comes just when Master of Towing was finally starting to become valuable. ---
**Author:** ![TSCOTT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eb8c5e/32.png) [@TSCOTT](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/TSCOTT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/5 "2014-01-24T19:00:29Z")
Not sure I understand the motivation for the engineer structure juggling, they really devalued the limited tickets. I also don’t understand the insistence on sea time as a licensed 1st unlimited to advance to CE unlimited vs. holding the 1st license for a period of time with sea time in a variable rolls. I can understand there are large differences between some vessels but shouldn’t this be something left to the discretion of a evaluator looking at the specific vessel you serve on, systems, responsibility of position tonnage and hp of vessel etc. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/6 "2014-01-24T20:21:55Z")
What I don’t understand is why don’t they throw the entire “national” or 'domestic" license mechanism overboard, and adopt the same consistent STCW system as everyone else. Why do we have 1600 GRT / 3000 GT I.T.C. licenses? Why not just 3000 GT licenses like everyone else? These dual tonnage licenses confuse the hell out of foreign flag employers and they put US mariners at a significant disadvantage in the global job market. ---
**Author:** ![z-drive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c37758/32.png) [@z-drive](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/z-drive)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/7 "2014-01-24T23:13:59Z")
I am all for getting rid of the national crap. But do other countries have anything equivalent to inland licenses? how are pilots licensed etc? One system across the board make more sense, but maybe that’s the plan In the long term. ---
**Author:** ![coldcreepin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@coldcreepin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/coldcreepin)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/8 "2014-01-25T02:07:00Z")
Does anyone read this as I do. If you hold a National 1600GRT or 500 GRT Oceans they both now hold the same weight on your International STCW of 3000GT II/2. There is only a advantage in having a higher National license but international they will be the same weight. I only sail international with ITC, so National dont mean much to me. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/9 "2014-01-25T04:59:37Z")
Yes. They have various forms of inland licenses, home-trade licenses, and so on. But as I understand it, once a mariner has an oceans, or foreign-going license, all that other local stuff drops off. Given the large size of the inland tug and barge business in the US, and large number of harbor boats, I can see why we should have a non-STCW license structure for inland. But it should be an entirely separate license, that is not in our STCW little red books. Foreign flag companies do not understand American dual tonnage licenses. I sent a bunch of resumes to foreign offshore and tug companies. Several responded that I was not qualified for their 2999 ton vessels because I only have a 1600 ton license. As soon as they see 1600 GRT, they don’t care if it also says 3000 GT. HR girls work off checklists; they do not want to hear about anything that is not on their checklists. Another thing that I am sick of trying to explain is that America does not issue seamen’s discharge books. and that I cannot send copies of my seaman’s book. For this, and other reasons, US mariners need to have seaman’s books just like everyone else. A friend tells me that foreign companies also do not understand American “unlimited” licenses with a tonnage limitation. Apparently no one else does this. Could this confusion be one reason why European companies do not want to hire Americans on their vessels working in the Gulf? ---
**Author:** ![Kraken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Kraken](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kraken)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/10 "2014-01-25T05:28:55Z")
[QUOTE=tugsailor;129047] Another thing that I am sick of trying to explain is that America does not issue seamen’s discharge books. and that I cannot send copies of my seaman’s book. For this, and other reasons, US mariners need to have seaman’s books just like everyone else. [/QUOTE] How do you show a new company the experience you have then? ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/11 "2014-01-25T07:06:20Z")
[QUOTE=Kraken;129049]How do you show a new company the experience you have then?[/QUOTE] All we can do is list the work experience on our CV. If the potential new employer so desires, it can then call the former employer to confirm. Many US companies use third party credential checking, or “background check” services to verify claimed education and prior employment, along with criminal, medical, and credit records. There is no privacy in the US anymore. Everyone’s personal information is for sale over the internet to anyone willing to pay for the service with a credit card. I don’t imagine that this kind of thing is allowed in Norway. ---
**Author:** ![Tugs](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/tugs/32/158_2.png) [@Tugs](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Tugs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 10:53am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/12 "2014-01-25T10:53:22Z")
There is also a little thing called The Marine Index. If you have ever been injured, they will have a record of it. My in my N.Y. Harbor days it was common to come back from an injury and to be asked to sign a wavier (that you would not sue) and they would give you all back pay and Not Report You to the Marine Index. My experience comes from growing up with a Father in Upper Management with Companies that ran Tugs, Barges and Small Tankers, so I know a far amount of how the other side handles things. ---
**Author:** ![coldcreepin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@coldcreepin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/coldcreepin)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/13 "2014-01-26T00:58:59Z")
Is it safe to imagine on 24 March 2014 the NMC website would provide all new checklist for license ? So current mariner could choose which requirements they want to qualify under? ---
**Author:** ![jdcavo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jdcavo/32/108_2.png) [@jdcavo](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/jdcavo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/grandfathering-and-transitional-provisions/11958/14 "2014-01-27T04:16:40Z")
[QUOTE=coldcreepin;129118]Is it safe to imagine on 24 March 2014 the NMC website would provide all new checklist for license ? So current mariner could choose which requirements they want to qualify under?[/QUOTE] Being developed.