# GCaptains article by Bloomsberg regarding Orsteds large losses **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [August 31, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999 "2023-08-31T01:13:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ladder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9a28c/32.png) [@Ladder](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Ladder)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 12:15am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/41 "2023-09-05T00:15:58Z")
There is a lot of misinformation about how many jobs will be created by offshore wind farms. An offshore windfarm doesn’t actually create very many long term jobs, there are quite a lot of jobs during the construction of the wind farm, but these are jobs that only last for a couple of years when the wind farm are being built. Many environmentalists say that all offshore oil and gas workers will be transitioned into offshore wind, but I don’t see where these jobs will come from. The environmentalists spin the job statistics to include the short term jobs during wind farm construction to make it look like offshore wind will create more work than they really do. If they only include the long term jobs from when the wind farms are in the operation and maintenance phase there are nowhere will be nowhere near enough job to replace all the oil and gas jobs. ---
**Author:** ![SeaEagle](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/seaeagle/32/17788_2.png) [@SeaEagle](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/SeaEagle)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/42 "2023-09-05T00:47:16Z")
Interesting. New York State has just applied for a 54% increase for their “NET ZERO CLIMATE PLAN” to install their windfarms.According to the article, Rate payers beware, not the taxpayers.I wouldn’t be to certain on the taxpayers being excluded. Coming to your neighborhood soon. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/43 "2023-09-05T01:02:36Z")
There is a golden rule in macro economics, every new industry created removes jobs. Its simple to understand as anything new needs to be more efficient than anything before, labour is the issue. Only time that doesnt work is if your economy suddenly finds a gold mine so you can export and not worry about productivity Jobs growth comes from economic growth which is expanding your economy so more products bought and sold. The population gets richer when they are more productive. How to get more productive, more output of units per person. ---
**Author:** ![ccairoli](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ccairoli/32/656_2.png) [@ccairoli](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ccairoli)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 7:55am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/44 "2023-09-05T07:55:05Z")
I would. Right now would be the perfect time to invest. The stock value went down, but it’s going to recover on the short-medium-long term. ---
**Author:** ![ccairoli](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ccairoli/32/656_2.png) [@ccairoli](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ccairoli)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 7:57am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/45 "2023-09-05T07:57:15Z")
is that an article from 2010??? Maybe not the most accurate data. ---
**Author:** ![Lew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lew](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lew)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 9:19am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/46 "2023-09-05T09:19:55Z")
I love the birds happily singing at the begining of the video Probably glad to see the turbines go, having lost a few friends to turbine blades. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 10:44am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/47 "2023-09-05T10:44:13Z")
your suggesting wind power is becoming less efficient each decade so it takes even more people?? ---
**Author:** ![ccairoli](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ccairoli/32/656_2.png) [@ccairoli](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ccairoli)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 11:05am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/48 "2023-09-05T11:05:39Z")
What does efficiency of wind power generation have to do with my comment? Obviously with 13 more years under the belt, technology cost have dropped dramatically, technology has made huge advances, so anything written in 2010 based on data from years prior has very little relevance to today. In all of this, everyone is very happy to forget the huge amount of government subsidies the oil and gas industry get, yet they scream bloody murder if any green energy project gets subsidies. By the way to my knowledge there are several projects in the North Sea with no subsidies. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 11:20am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/49 "2023-09-05T11:20:31Z")
its 100%, we are talking about jobs created by the wind industry and your saying lessons learnt 10 years ago no longer apply. So with your huge technology advances there are even less people required in the wind industry or more? Which side of the argument are you on? ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/50 "2023-09-05T12:35:57Z")
> [@Ladder](#): > > Many of the Marine Crew that work on SOVs in German waters are from Eastern Europe and the Philippines etc. Yes that is true, as it is on all kinds of European ships today. It is still ships and jobs though. There is a shortage of labour in the EU, including in Shipping of all kinds. > [@Ladder](#): > > An offshore windfarm doesn’t actually create very many long term jobs, there are quite a lot of jobs during the construction of the wind farm, but these are jobs that only last for a couple of years when the wind farm are being built. Also true, but the number of SOVs being built indicate that there is a need for more maintenance crews and marine crews in the years to come. There are also jobs at the shore bases and services for the OWFs Not to mention to manufacture the components that goes into the finished turbines. When the construction boom is over there will be a need for demolition and replacement of the early and less efficient wind turbines. More jobs for the boys and girls. That is a well known pattern from the offshore oi & gas industry. The high price and subsidies that is so much part of this conversation is not something that last forever. In Europe the subsidies are a thing of the past as the efficiency increase and cost of construction drops: > **[Subsidy-Free Offshore European Wind Bids On The Rise: GlobalData Report](https://www.saurenergy.com/solar-energy-news/subsidy-free-offshore-european-wind-bids-on-the-rise-globaldata-report)** > > The latest report by GlobalData claimed that European countries are witnessing increased subsidy-free wind energy bids due to intense competition. The price shock of 2020 is over in Europe. Natural Gas prices are down and more power is generated by wind and solar. FYI; Because of the cables connecting Norway to EU and UK European prices affect prices here too. It has been windy in NW Europe so we are able to import cheap wind power from there and save water in the reservoirs here. When it doesn’t blow Norway supply cheap Hydro power the other way. For a few days the spot price for electricity here in Ålesund dropped into negative territory during the night and from an 24 hr. average of 49 øre (5 US cents) on 31. Aug, to 10 øre (1 US Cent) on 4.Sept. Spot price today: Highest price today at 08.00-09.00: ## 25.34 øre/kWh 24 hr. average today: ## 11.48 øre/kWh Lowest price today at 00.00-01.00: ## -3.52 øre/kWh Tomorrow: Highest price at 15.00-16.00: ## 34.77 øre/kWh 24 hr. average: ## 20 øre/kWh Lowest price at 00.00-01.00: ## -1.61 øre/kWh Source: [Strømpris i dag time for time – Se oppdatert graf | Lyse](https://www.lyse.no/strom/strompriser?postnummer=6008) When can you expect something similar to happen in the US? Depends on when you get over the idea that renewables are expensive. The rest of the world is busy building out wind and solar power. Don’t fight it. ---
**Author:** ![texastanker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e4f/32.png) [@texastanker](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/texastanker)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 1:30pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/51 "2023-09-05T13:30:15Z")
We are not there yet, and not sure when we will get there, but if you don’t believe the future of energy is renewables you just have your head in the sand. It is not an if question, it is a when and a bit of a how question. ---
**Author:** ![shipengr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/shipengr/32/485_2.png) [@shipengr](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/shipengr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/52 "2023-09-05T15:05:41Z")
> [@powerabout](#): > > and your saying lessons learnt 10 years ago no longer apply. No, he’s saying a study done 13 years ago on the economics of an industry is hardly relevant today due to massive changes in efficiencies and scale of the industry as well as the economy. Also worth noting, the study didn’t find that each green energy job caused the actual loss of other jobs, it suggested that if the green energy subsidy dollars were given to another industry it would have created more jobs. Surely that’s true, if we gave $100k to the fast food industry we’d probably create three jobs instead of one green energy job. But that’s not the industry we’re trying to grow. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/53 "2023-09-05T15:06:31Z")
Pointless comparing Norway to anything like reality due to its small size and natural resources. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/54 "2023-09-05T15:10:15Z")
> [@shipengr](#): > > No, he’s saying a study done 13 years ago on the economics of an industry is hardly relevant today due to massive changes in efficiencies and scale of the industry as well as the economy. So… if the industry got more efficient then the same number of people will be doing more, looks like its going the other way and its creating more jobs if you believe that is true. The history of 10 years ago will prove that case because there is your base point. Does the power industry employ less, more or just moved them around over time? The car industry employees less over time as it got efficient but makes more cars. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/55 "2023-09-05T16:34:18Z")
Pointless to compare Australia to reality because of it’s big size, small population and it’s abundant natural resources (Not just oil & gas, or fish, like Norway) What is this hang-up about “creating more jobs” when there is a shortage of labour, both in Europe, US and most other developed countries? At the same time there is a falling population and resistance to immigration in the same countries. Make no sense. With your great knowledge of economics you probably know that a shrinking workforce = falling GDP and taxes?: [https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5803/ldselect/ldeconaf/115/11504.htm](https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5803/ldselect/ldeconaf/115/11504.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SeaEagle](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/seaeagle/32/17788_2.png) [@SeaEagle](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/SeaEagle)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/56 "2023-09-05T17:33:40Z")
Most recent Bloomberg article (Today)on presented GCaptain regarding Orsted is quite telling for multiple reasons. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/57 "2023-09-05T20:41:03Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > [Orsted](https://gcaptain.com/tag/orsted/) A/S said it’s prepared to walk away from projects in America unless the White House guarantees more support, highlighting the myriad challenges facing wind-energy developers in the country. > > The US, far behind Europe and China in the race to build [offshore wind](https://gcaptain.com/tag/offshore-wind/), is targeting a jump to 30 gigawatts by the end of the decade from next to nothing now. While the Biden administration has touted its landmark clean-energy subsidy program to kickstart projects, developers must ensure a large chunk of components are US-made, and that’s proving hard to achieve. To expect foreign companies to finance development of US offshore wind without support is not realistic. Demanding thing that is not possible doesn’t solve the problem. PS\> The same thing is hampering with EVs on the US market; demand for US-made components that is not available as a condition for support and concessions.(+ lack of fast charging facilities) An egg MUST come first, before you get a chicken. ---
**Author:** ![SeaEagle](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/seaeagle/32/17788_2.png) [@SeaEagle](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/SeaEagle)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 9:21pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/58 "2023-09-05T21:21:53Z")
So, should we backtrack on the requirement that the bulk of the products and labor be USA produced? That was part of the bill, put Americans first. Relating to your terminology I would think the egg has already hatched, just not enough chicken feed.for some. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/59 "2023-09-05T21:48:45Z")
> [@SeaEagle](#): > > So, should we bracktrack on the requirement that the bulk of the products and labor be USA produced? Yes that would be wise, until such time as US made components and labour are available. So far there are only a handful of wind turbines turning offshore USA. Nobody has made any profit yet. That is how the offshore oil & gas industry spread around the world. First with American equipment, technology and labour, exploration and development largely financed by American companies, until the the profit started to roll in for both parties (the oil companies and the host nation) Today personnel in the “host countries” have gained the skills and home grown technology are available. You don’t find many Americans working in the oil & gas industry abroad any more. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999/60 "2023-09-06T00:12:54Z")
> [@ombugge](#): > > With your great knowledge of economics you probably know that a shrinking workforce = falling GDP and taxes? Not true anywhere, that guess assumes nothing ever gets more efficient. Productivity increases in western countrys out strips population growth by huge amounts. Every industry employs less over time as they get more productive, more industrys are created. In many western countrys wages increase much slower than the value of the earned output, then they cry we cant get workers… Sure a pandemic will drop your gdp in a small time frame and kill a few off. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/gcaptains-article-by-bloomsberg-regarding-orsteds-large-losses/66999.md?page=4)