DNV DP Training Scheme

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Good luck having the US Oil Majors recognizing it.

[QUOTE=shipmate 1;85700]Good luck having the US Oil Majors recognizing it.[/QUOTE]

The oil majors will have no problem with a DP license backed by a classification society.

[QUOTE=anchorman;85727]The oil majors will have no problem with a DP license backed by a classification society.[/QUOTE]

then all the rest of us with real DP certificates will get FUCKED by this!

Might as well just make a DP game for X-Box and every kid will have a certificate before leaving junior highschool!

Oh no! I wonder if OMSA is pulling the strings on this as well? Maybe they will make a special 6000 itc DPO cert just for mud boats. Man I’m gonna have to go get me one of these.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;85749]Oh no! I wonder if OMSA is pulling the strings on this as well? Maybe they will make a special 6000 itc DPO cert just for mud boats. Man I’m gonna have to go get me one of these.[/QUOTE]

No. First of all, DNV classification is five times the cost of ABS. Then, I doubt any willingness to send personnel to Trondheim, to the approved DNV school. Then, I doubt very seriously that any gulf of mexico company will see any value in sending someone to a simulator course (in Norway) designed to give the trainee DPO’s a possibility to reduce the required sea service time of 6 months by 6 weeks per simulator week.

The current system of just stamping 28 days of 12 hour watches (dock or not) over a 6 month period in the NI log book seems to work fine in the GOM. God help us if that 6 months had to be followed with a simulator competency test.

After all, DP is not a video game…

It is good to see someone provide an alternate DP certification scheme. There is no reason the Nautical Institute should have a virtual monopoly on the certification of DPOs. The DNV scheme may have some points to improve upon, but I applaud them for initiating the needed change in this area.

[QUOTE=dredgeboater;85754]It is good to see someone provide an alternate DP certification scheme. There is no reason the Nautical Institute should have a virtual monopoly on the certification of DPOs. The DNV scheme may have some points to improve upon, but I applaud them for initiating the needed change in this area.[/QUOTE]

Disagree 100% with this new DNV scheme. Do not like the vessel specific endorsement. It does scare me that companies will hire people with this DNV DP Cert and place them as DPOs or SrDPOs. I would have no problem with them being hired as an ADPO or DP Trainee, then upon completion of the NI Scheme, promotion to DPO. If I was a Master of a Drilling vessel and they hire a DPO with the DNV cert and no real experience, I would try to have him removed from the vessel or put into a lesser position. This training is absurd and will only hurt the industry if its accepted. I say this to all management, we need to stand together on this and to not allow people to be hired with only DNV Cert in a DPO or above Capacity.

With everything that has happened in the last couple of years, I thought things would get better, training would be taking more seriously, experience will make a difference, obviously that is not the way DP and the industry is going.

I thought the vessel type specific endorsement was one of the good points of the DNV scheme. The lack of actual DP operational experience on the job is the biggest pitfall of the DNV scheme.

I read that article, and I will be watching this thread with great interest. I have invested over $30,000 and many months to get my Third Mate license, AS A HAWSEPIPER. Only to have the USCG change the assessment requirements (to make it ‘easier?’ for hawespipers SUPPOSEDLY…) the VERY DAY July 2011, I finished my Third Mate courses. Tough break for me.

And, January this year, Nautical Institute no longer accepts anyone without a marine license in their DPO program.

Now I have my Third Mate license. I just got off the phone today talking to my company who hired me as Third Mate on a drillship. Naturally, I want to get into the DPO program eventually, and the I feel confident the company will support me in my career advancement. I can’t imagine them sending me anywhere but a Nautical Institute school, in order to keep things uniform in their training, with proven results.

I can’t say I wouldn’t be sore if in the future I get passed over on a job by a guy who bought his sea-time on a simulator.

I can also imagine when some HR is looking for qualified personnel, sometimes they are just looking to fill the billet?

I am trying to think of a good analogy for this. Academy vs. Hawespiper? or White Flag vs. Flag of Convenience license?

At first I thought I would just be a fly-on-the-wall and read people’s opinions. but then I realized I may be the one who may be affected by this the most!

[QUOTE=stellarseas;85776]I read that article, and I will be watching this thread with great interest. I have invested over $30,000 and many months to get my Third Mate license, AS A HAWSEPIPER. Only to have the USCG change the assessment requirements (to make it ‘easier?’ for hawespipers SUPPOSEDLY…) the VERY DAY July 2011, I finished my Third Mate courses. Tough break for me.

And, January this year, Nautical Institute no longer accepts anyone without a marine license in their DPO program.

Now I have my Third Mate license. I just got off the phone today talking to my company who hired me as Third Mate on a drillship. Naturally, I want to get into the DPO program eventually, and the I feel confident the company will support me in my career advancement. I can’t imagine them sending me anywhere but a Nautical Institute school, in order to keep things uniform in their training, with proven results.

I can’t say I wouldn’t be sore if in the future I get passed over on a job by a guy who bought his sea-time on a simulator.

I can also imagine when some HR is looking for qualified personnel, sometimes they are just looking to fill the billet?

I am trying to think of a good analogy for this. Academy vs. Hawespiper? or White Flag vs. Flag of Convenience license?

At first I thought I would just be a fly-on-the-wall and read people’s opinions. but then I realized I may be the one who may be affected by this the most![/QUOTE]

You are still ahead of the game. Your in with a company, and that is what matters. Eventually you will get a chance to take your DP classes.

[QUOTE=stellarseas;85776]Now I have my Third Mate license. I just got off the phone today talking to my company who hired me as Third Mate on a drillship. Naturally, I want to get into the DPO program eventually, and the I feel confident the company will support me in my career advancement. I can’t imagine them sending me anywhere but a Nautical Institute school, in order to keep things uniform in their training, with proven results.[/QUOTE]

I hope it isn’t Noble tho…you’re climb into the DP chair will not be quick and easy. A third mate at ND is a bosun on most other company’s drillships.

[QUOTE=PDCMATE;85784]You are still ahead of the game. Your in with a company, and that is what matters. Eventually you will get a chance to take your DP classes.[/QUOTE]

Thank you PDCMATE! To be honest, When I was trapped under the glass ceiling of being an AB, I thought about getting a Flag of Convenience license in order to get toward DPO. But I rat-holed my money away, bit the bullet, took a leave of absence from the company and got my 3rd the “legit” USCG White Flag way, and as a hawespiper to boot. Something to be proud of.

Yes, you are completely right, With my perseverance and a little luck, I’m in. And when the day comes to go to DPO classes, I will insist going to a Nautical Institute accredited school. I want to to be seen as an equal to my fellow crew.

I was recently looking on a job-board and I saw an opening for a DPO in Nigeria, but the catch was that the DPO had to be a Nigerian National! And yes, I looked, and Nigeria has a Maritime Academy, perhaps the largest in Africa! With all the piracy there, I would have never imagined! I wonder if these are going to be the type of guys going to the DNV program.

Let’s face it, some ships and licenses are on the “white-list, gray-list, and black-list” and Flags of Convenience are related to wages.

Quoted in Wikipedia under “Flags of Convenience”…

The United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, in its 2009 Report on Maritime Trade, states that shipowners often register their ships under a foreign flag in order to employ “seafarers from developing countries with lower wages.”

I know I am getting in over my head by getting into the politics of this, but it is worth considering what it could do in the future.

[QUOTE=stellarseas;85796]Thank you PDCMATE! To be honest, When I was trapped under the glass ceiling of being an AB, I thought about getting a Flag of Convenience license in order to get toward DPO. But I rat-holed my money away, bit the bullet, took a leave of absence from the company and got my 3rd the “legit” USCG White Flag way, and as a hawespiper to boot. Something to be proud of.

Yes, you are completely right, With my perseverance and a little luck, I’m in. And when the day comes to go to DPO classes, I will insist going to a Nautical Institute accredited school. I want to to be seen as an equal to my fellow crew.

I was recently looking on a job-board and I saw an opening for a DPO in Nigeria, but the catch was that the DPO had to be a Nigerian National! And yes, I looked, and Nigeria has a Maritime Academy, perhaps the largest in Africa! With all the piracy there, I would have never imagined! I wonder if these are going to be the type of guys going to the DNV program.

Let’s face it, some ships and licenses are on the “white-list, gray-list, and black-list” and Flags of Convenience are related to wages.

Quoted in Wikipedia under “Flags of Convenience”…

The United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, in its 2009 Report on Maritime Trade, states that shipowners often register their ships under a foreign flag in order to employ “seafarers from developing countries with lower wages.”

I know I am getting in over my head by getting into the politics of this, but it is worth considering what it could do in the future.[/QUOTE]

Working in certain regions, you have to abide by their naturalization rules, just like the GOM. I work in Nigeria and we have Nigerian ADPO on the rig, they are extra to the 4 DPOs and 4 SrDPOs we have. They both are working through the NI Scheme, and actually both do an excellent job with certain things and both are very receptive to learning and wanting to know more.

[QUOTE=PDCMATE;85814]Working in certain regions, you have to abide by their naturalization rules, just like the GOM. I work in Nigeria and we have Nigerian ADPO on the rig, they are extra to the 4 DPOs and 4 SrDPOs we have. They both are working through the NI Scheme, and actually both do an excellent job with certain things and both are very receptive to learning and wanting to know more.[/QUOTE]

Not to divert the subject of this thread, but do you know if Nigeria is white-list? I read Liberia is.
It is reassuring to know that your Nigerian crewmates are doing an excellent job, but could it eventually skew the wages somehow?
Like I said, I am getting in over my head when it comes to foreign flag ships and licenses. All I know is that I have a Marshall Is. book and a Vanuatu book soon. and I get paid a little better than the avg. US sailor, so I am not certain if this is a relevant issue or not.

Now back to our regular programming…

How about we make a training scheme that requires a new mate to observe for 210 days before he is able to back a workboat into a slip? Or how about we start requiring floorhands to have a universal log book and observe for 210 days before they are allowed to be hired for a job on the drill floor? They just have to get some poor company, trying to make an oil major happy, to send them to some ridiculous expensive school where they sit bored staring into space while some old guy talks about something like the six freedoms of movement, then drive a simulator for a few hours.

These NI requirements take no measure of the ability of the individual. There is no test (yet). Its completely reliant on the DP officers on the vessel to enforce their judgement, unbiased by the fact they live and work all day everyday together.

After that they can do a completely different job on a vessel like painting handrails. After watch they can sit blindly staring at the back of a DPO who is quietly filling out a 6 hour checklist. After a period of time, whatever they can get away with, he or she can knock off for the day, tired from 12 hours of painting handrails. I have not once seen a company hire an observer DP trainee and not expect them to do work to justify their paycheck. In the Nautical Institute scheme, done as designed, a company would have to commit to a year salary and the cost of the classes for their trainee. That’s quite a commitment, one that would backfire for sure after the trainee promptly leaves the company once the certificate is in hand.

Just because the old training scheme has worked well for us in the past doesn’t mean it’s right for the future. We really need to have a practical system. A system that works in the current environment.

I would rather see flag states require DP operators to be endorsed on their NWO licenses. There should be comprehensive test and assessment control sheets similar to STCW requirements for RFPNW or OICNW. (Why not let individuals get those signed off in a simulator? That’s ok, they do it for the other assessments.) I like the idea of ADPO for third mate, DPO for second and senior dpo for CM. Likewise, the COI would require these endorsements the same as the license. Now, if I don’t already have you fuming, a unlimited master shouldn’t just be given a SDPO. He should have to work his way up just the same. Has anyone else seen an office dwelling non DP Captain magically get a DP Cert? Who signed them off? What? They signed themselves off, because it asked for the Masters signature?!?! Come on, that’s bull s41t. Still we would have to grandfather those guys, wouldn’t we?

The Nautical Institute is just a scam outfit! They don’t teach us. Correct me, please, if any of you have flew to London and taken a DP class at the Nautical Institute. All they do is push paper. How much do they charge for that little book and piece of paper certificate. Am I the only one who thinks that certificate looks like trash?

Any alternative to NI works for me, hopefully it’s an efficient one.

Used to be that you would get a Mate’s job and get trained up on DP while working your way through the program. I think it worked back then, or should I say back there… Now days its hard to even hang out on a bridge with out a full DP cert. I just don’t think that makes sense.

The DNV scheme has many advantages and superior to the present NI Scheme.

  1. It is open to all irrespective of background.
  2. Quicker to complete. It could be as early as 3-4 weeks if you pass the assessment.
  3. Full mission bridge is a prerequisite for the Training Centre. This is much better training environment compared to the present facilities which are match boxes in some countries.
  4. The NI scheme has no assessment. Therfore you could have a dud upon completion of the NI Scheme.
  5. The DNV Scheme has specialisations. Therefore you take the course as required. You have the option of completing all specialisations as you progress in your DP Career.
  6. The DNV Certificate is like a car licence / credit card. Easy to carry and verify.

The best thing it is open to all. I forsee a lot of non STCW guys going ahead for this. The market will be flooded with DPOs. Salaris will come down.
Pass the Test and take your licence. Valid for 5 years. Since it has Class backing, it would be definetly sought after than the NI scheme.
In short the NI is finished.

2020 going, but the NI is not being finished :smile: