[QUOTE=bigmoose;35650]Folks, I just wanted to post a [B]CAUTION[/B] with respect to shanec’s request above. I know most professionals are aware of this, but there may be many motivated folks scrounging the internet, and wanting to help and “right this wrong.”
I just wanted to caution that the documents that were requested above may well be marked “Company Proprietary” as such they fall under the Economic Espionage Act of 1996 (18 USC 1831-39):
Note to perhaps inexperienced folks trying to help. Be careful. There are big fish in the water, one or more that may soon be fighting for survival. If you send a “Company Proprietary” document say to a foreign party via your email, or host on your website a “Proprietary Document” that causes economic harm to the company you can be litigated against. The bear in the room may eat you, and end up with your treasure and your home… if you are a minor, your folks could loose all. Would this be certain, no. … but do you really want to go up against the attorneys companies of this caliber retain?
If the information is not marked, have at it; if it is marked “Proprietary”, [B]please be careful[/B], this is the “real deal” for these companies that are under investigation and they will be as viscous as a wounded alligator.
Note: I am not employed by any of these companies, nor am I an attorney. In fact, I am rather upset, to say the least, by the events that led up to this blasted event.[/QUOTE]
bigmoose makes a very good point. If, however, you do have [B]non-proprietary[/B] information you would like to share anonymously, take a look at WikiLeaks (http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/WikiLeaks:Submissions).
[QUOTE=bigmoose;35650]Folks, I just wanted to post a [B]CAUTION[/B] with respect to shanec’s request above. I know most professionals are aware of this, but there may be many motivated folks scrounging the internet, and wanting to help and “right this wrong.”
I just wanted to caution that the documents that were requested above may well be marked “Company Proprietary” as such they fall under the Economic Espionage Act of 1996 (18 USC 1831-39):
Note to perhaps inexperienced folks trying to help. Be careful. There are big fish in the water, one or more that may soon be fighting for survival. If you send a “Company Proprietary” document say to a foreign party via your email, or host on your website a “Proprietary Document” that causes economic harm to the company you can be litigated against. The bear in the room may eat you, and end up with your treasure and your home… if you are a minor, your folks could loose all. Would this be certain, no. … but do you really want to go up against the attorneys companies of this caliber retain?
[B]If the information is not marked, have at it[/B]; if it is marked “Proprietary”, please be careful[/B], this is the “real deal” for these companies that are under investigation and they will be as viscous as a wounded alligator. [/QUOTE]
I think now is a good time to mention www.wikileaks.org. If you want to release ‘sensitive’ information anonymously, they are the people to do it through.
[QUOTE=TroubledByThis;35639]<i> We accidentally discovered this spill looking at the Deepwater Horizon images. The question is, what would we see if we were systematically looking at the offshore industry?" said John Amos with Skytruth.org. “Is this an aberration, or are things like this going on all the time? That’s why we are calling for public, transparent monitoring everywhere offshore drilling is going on in U.S. waters.”
[/QUOTE]
The so-called Coast Guard Unified Command and BP seem excessively in agreement, in their resistance to disclosing vital data, such as rates of flow from the well, pressure drops across orfices, size of orifices, and whether sources are from within ddrill pipe, inside casing, outside casing, etc. So much of media and public contact seems to flow through both, as principals.Q–is there an established heirarchy in the “Unified” or “Joint” Coast Guard Command in which BP acts as an administrator? Such conflicts of interest have become accepted as " business as usual".
That’s why they had this disaster to begin with the European mentality of the Lord & servant that still permeates every European run company I’ve seen. There are the PHDs that Rlanasa bragged about & the fact that no real working people were allowed to be in the genius room , & there is the servitude. The little people who don’t really count & have a certain price tag on their heads. That is exactly the way these people look at it & if you haven’t worked for a company like that then you should because that’s the way they think & the only way to get ahead with a company like that is to be the best ass kisser in the group. And the best ass kisser dopesn’t too often go hand in hand with the person who’s looking out for everybody’s safety & welfare.
Edit: Now you can accuse me of foreign bashing.[/QUOTE]
Bravo and well said but it’s not just the European mentality, the same mentality exists with USA companies. You’re expected to fall on your sword to prove you’re a good employee BUT they’ll also hang you out to dry when things really hit the fan.
At the end of the day all you have is your own integrity and that is something you can carry with you for the rest of your life from job to job. Sure, you’ll lose a job from time to time [I have] but your reputation as a straight shooter will give you many more jobs than you’ll lose. I’ve made a good living in my life by being as honest with the folks I work with as with the folks I work for. At times I’ve had to say "Professionally I cannot condone these actions. I am sorry but we need to make a change."
Sometimes I got a check in the mail and sometimes the change I was seeking happened. Either way we both did what we thought was best. If you manage your financial affairs and live within or below your means you can do that BUT if you live from hand to mouth you end up being nothing more than a whore who will do or say anything to get the next pay day. I know that many of the decisions made every day on rigs and ships which involve human life and potential catastrophe are made by folks who feel they can’t live without that next pay check.
You cannot change human nature which is why we need laws and objective people to enforce them.
Company policy is not law it is just company policy.
[QUOTE=Alf;35641]Yeah, this is quite staggering!
One big question though (assuming the press report has some accuracy?)… how have they been allowed to get away with it for so long?[/QUOTE] When you’re that dirty at the game & you realizie the MMS doesn’t talk to the production people. You have the production people scared of the drilling people, the refining people scared of the EPA. You pretty much have everybody scared of everybody else. You basically understand all the cards in the deck & the odds of how they will get dealt before the hand is played, you can bluff & bully your way around the table. I can guarantee you though that it is bigger people playing for bigger stakes than just a company man, shift supervisor at a plant, or the lead operator in a field. This is the big boys conjuring up these tactics to increse production & decrease expenses to a max so they can increase their wallet size & move up the ladder at the same time. The only way their sins find them out is when a really big problem like the Texas refinery, Alaskan pipeline, or DWH catches up to them.
corky, bnhpr, CPTdrillersails (and apologies to any others I may have missed):
Thank you for your measured and reasonable responses to what could easily have been taken as an inflammatory post. Although I 100% stand by what I said in that post, I neglected to mention the huge number of extremely competent and conscientious Americans I’ve had the pleasure of working with over the years. I guess that’s part of this whole interweb thing – you get so intent on making your point that sometimes fairness comes in a distant second.
I agree, the entire industry needs a massive wake-up slap. Although it’s a dangerous business by any standards, it’s not acceptable to kill people for profit and it’s not acceptable to take risks with entire eco-systems. BP needs to pay, and I’m sure they will be made to.
For now, due to my apparent inability to stop reacting badly to a few posters, I’ll wish all here the best of luck and I’ll keep reading but keep my mouth shut.
[QUOTE=alvis;35557]I’ve been wondering how those hard drives would fair under 5,000 feet of water where the water pressure is over 2,000 psi. I would imagine sea water has made its way inside the drive and done its damage. Anyone?
Edit: Wrong hard drives… My bad.
Thanks NOL.
I have my mind on the supposed missing data that wasn’t eLogged…[/QUOTE]
I’ve heard the FBI has the best capabilities for that. Could that data have been networked to multiple locations on the rig? Like someone’s laptop? Did any laptops make it off the rig?
Dear Alcor
I have carefully read all of your posts and no offense but I think you are stupid.
Check that. On second thought I DO mean to be offensive.
You previously claimed that you are a driller, Alcor, so I’ll speak to you as if that is actually the case, Alcor.
I’m just going to go ahead and tell you how stupid a driller I think you are, Alcor:
You are hit the crown block stupid
You are turn off the pit gain alarm because it must be mis-calibrated stupid
You are let the trip tank run dry stupid
You are drop 3 balls on a tri-cone bit when your swabs are blown stupid
You are reset the hook load indicator to agree with your stupid pipe tally stupid
You are picking pipe dope out of your ass every night stupid
You are claim to be a driller but obviously are not stupid
You are so stupid that you think everyone can’t tell you’re not from the oil field stupid
You are so stupid that you say “My responsibilities as a Driller, Tourpusher or Toolpusher are quite clear”
“I may have generalised somewhat” stupid
You are so stupid that you think rlanasa is NOT stupid
You are quoting NYT but can’t read stupid
You are the only person in the oilfield who doesn’t have to wear a hard hat because your head is so dense its OSHA approved stupid
You are let’s see my SSP fell, my torque fell, my rotary increased, pump strokes increased, must check my swabs stupid
Stand by, Alcor. I’ll think of more ways you are stupid
[QUOTE=company man 1;35637]Wow ! Alvis, you are the man ! I say again for the record you are the man!
Having read this & knowing what I know, I will ask again, can BP ever be trusted again to dig fence post in the United States, much less an oil well ?
Edit: This is an absolute must read for anyone following this thread.[/QUOTE]
Uh CM1. . . . Maybe you could give me some help here considering your position & all. I have never worked oil pipeline associated jobs, so just curious as to whether each section of the pipeline is controlled by a company man (aka Cowboy)? I have sailed tankers & I don’t recall there ever being a "company man at any of the oil terminals I have visited, although some of them were BP terminals & I guess since the people running those terminals did work for BP I suppose that technically one could call them company men for lack of a better term. Just trying to reconcile this newly proven information with Alcor’s strident accusations that BP is never at fault & that it is always one single Cowboy who causes their problems.
[QUOTE=Alf;35649]I hadn’t seen this before that the 16" was hung off inside the 22"!!! This means that they drilled all the way to TD with approx 160ft of 22" exposed below the mud line!!!
Burst of 22"… around 4500psi possibly… Collapse rating approx 2500psi. I don’t have the exact data.[/QUOTE] I’ll go you one better. Since there is so much incomplete information about the grade & weights of this casing I can do nothing more than assume BP does not want to disclose all of their casing information due to the overwhelming amount of criticism they would recieve by other people in the industry.
Since I have not found a complete listing of casing grades & weights I will assume the 9 7/8" to be 62.8 Lbs./Ft. from 12487’ to hang off @ 5067’ would be 7420’ = 465,976 #. Assuming 7" 41# which I have my doubts they ran, but for argument’s sake 18,303’-12487’ = 5816’ = 238,456# =704,432# casing Wt. x 0.85 for buoyancy =598,767 # slack off. ID of 22" casing that 9 7/8" was hung off in was 19.75"x 19.75 = 390.06"
9.875"x 9.875" = 97.52" 390.06 - 97.52 = 292,54" X 3.14 = 918.57 /4 = 229.64 Sq. In. x 1475 underbalance = 338,719 # upward force = 260,048 # slack off Wt. If 1132 PSI migrated up through casing annulus or was generated due to heat & casing expansion from well flow at a later date it would have given enough upward force to literally push the casing seals out of the seal bore & allow the well to flow through the casing annulus.
Given the type of cement job which was pumped for the production casing including the use of nitrogen foam cement pad It is not only reasonable, but very likely that the break out & migration of nitrogen to the casing seals while carrying BHP, combined with the underbalancing of the well with seawater caused the casing to be lifted hydraulically removing the seal integrity at the top of the production casing & allowing the swift influx of hydrocarbons up the annulus & into the well bore at the base of the BOP assembly.
While the well could have been temporarily controlled by redisplacing with kill weight mud, at the point when the casing was hydraulically lifted, the only permanent alternative would have been to either pull the casing & cut out & replace the float collar to the casing shoe & then rerun with another type of cement job, or perform as many casing squeezes as necessary, with the proper cement bond logs to ensure the proper setting of cement to safely secure the well.
This is a theory that if someone had told me was possible 8 weeks ago, I would have told them to get checked for fever. Yet I find myself seeing this as the most likely scenario for what occured on 4/20/10.
Should this be proven to be the case, whoever made or approved these designs is not fit to ever oversee the drilling of another well anywhere & is a danger to the industry & society as a whole.
The highest burst rating I found for 22" casing was 2500 PSI. [QUOTE=Alf;35649]I hadn’t seen this before that the 16" was hung off inside the 22"!!! This means that they drilled all the way to TD with approx 160ft of 22" exposed below the mud line!!!
Burst of 22"… around 4500psi possibly… Collapse rating approx 2500psi. I don’t have the exact data.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Corky;35677]Uh CM1. . . . Maybe you could give me some help here considering your position & all. I have never worked oil pipeline associated jobs, so just curious as to whether each section of the pipeline is controlled by a company man (aka Cowboy)? I have sailed tankers & I don’t recall there ever being a "company man at any of the oil terminals I have visited, although some of them were BP terminals & I guess since the people running those terminals did work for BP I suppose that technically one could call them company men for lack of a better term. Just trying to reconcile this newly proven information with Alcor’s strident accusations that BP is never at fault & that it is always one single Cowboy who causes their problems.[/QUOTE]
I guess Alcor was terribly abused by a company man in the past. I understand the people on here who have a real axe to grind toward the company man. I have worked for several low lifes like they describe in the past. That is why I swore to myself I would never be like that if I ever took the job. There is no doubt he knows the company man wasn’t the only one to blame in all of this, but when you have been at the brunt of a highly abusive person it can be hard to let go of pent up anger. I sensed in his last few posts a real breakthrough with his sensitive side though. I believe he is close to achieving true zin in his life & this will make him a positive influence to others in the future.
[QUOTE=bigmoose;35650]Folks, I just wanted to post a [B]CAUTION[/B] with respect to shanec’s request above. I know most professionals are aware of this, but there may be many motivated folks scrounging the internet, and wanting to help and “right this wrong.”
I just wanted to caution that the documents that were requested above may well be marked “Company Proprietary” as such they fall under the Economic Espionage Act of 1996 (18 USC 1831-39):
Note to perhaps inexperienced folks trying to help. Be careful. There are big fish in the water, one or more that may soon be fighting for survival. If you send a “Company Proprietary” document say to a foreign party via your email, or host on your website a “Proprietary Document” that causes economic harm to the company you can be litigated against. The bear in the room may eat you, and end up with your treasure and your home… if you are a minor, your folks could loose all. Would this be certain, no. … but do you really want to go up against the attorneys companies of this caliber retain?
[B]If the information is not marked, have at it[/B]; [B]if it is marked “Proprietary”, please be careful[/B], this is the “real deal” for these companies that are under investigation and they will be as viscous as a wounded alligator.
Note: I am not employed by any of these companies, nor am I an attorney. In fact, I am rather upset, to say the least, by the events that led up to this blasted event.
[I]
Looks like shanec’ removed his/her post. It was two above this one. Perhaps this caution was in order?[/I][/QUOTE]
Sounds like intimidation to me. This issue is too serious for companies not to be completely transparent. These procedures will be requested and looked at by the vaious inquirees, so will come out into the public domain anyway in the end. If the procedures are solid and were followed then no-one has anything to hide. If not, then we’ll see intimidating remarks like that above.
[QUOTE=company man 1;35678]Since I have not found a complete listing of casing grades & weights I will assume the 9 7/8" to be 62.8 Lbs./Ft. from 12487’ to hang off @ 5067’ would be 7420’ = 465,976 #. Assuming 7" 41# which I have my doubts they ran, but for argument’s sake …[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RiverPirate;35603]Hasn’t it already been shown that the Company Man deviated from regular procedures to plug the well in because of orders from his superiors on land? Now, you’re saying he didn’t give a shit about his workers. I’m sure had he known what was gonna happen he would not have done it the way he was ordered to. Maybe he did as told and hoped it would all work out and he would still have his job?[/QUOTE]
Only a dog does as he’s told. We are equipped to judge what the hole is telling us. If we don’t know what the hole is saying then we are like blind men crossing a busy road.
When ‘Land’ instructs you to do something it is often clear that they don’t understand the severity of the situation. ‘Land’ instructs us to perform tasks in a particular sequence, but its up to us to help them make good decisions that we agree with. There is NEVER a compromise on bad tests, followed by reduction of hydrostatic pressure. NEVER. I don’t believe ‘land’ told the Co Man to displace the mud to sea water. They didn’t see the tests. The ‘Cowboy’ made these decisions himself!!!
[QUOTE=company man 1;35608]You can’t win with Alcor. Either you fall on your sword because you did something totally stupid as told to you by your superiors. Or your some kind of a blame throwing coward who’s afraid to watch his guys march to their deaths. He is the one who has thrown out the cowboy mentality about 100 times & yet says he takes all the responsibility all the time no matter what. I know that’s bullshit & so does anyone else that’s worked in the field in the last 15 years. Their have been those who understand how things work that realize the man on loacation doesn’t make the calls, he carries out the calls. He’s supposed to have enough sense to realize when the calls being made by his superiors will land everyone in trouble. To do this he needs to have a good established working relationship with his drillcrews, since they are his eyes & ears. It does not appear to me as though anyone had a good trustworthy working relationship on this location.How could that be ? I can give you a prime example. This morning I recieved another call . BP wants little old me to feel privilaged enough to work for big old them. The only problem is they want me to drop my corporate status, work as a direct employee for the firm representing me. Take a $200+ /day pay cut, & agree that at anytime after hiring me they can then force the company I invoice through to cut me immedieately without compensation. They love my credentials. Well they should since I earned my stripes fixing their F>>> ups. Those are the rules & they are non-negotiable. Guess what BP, you can sit on it & rotate. That’s why they will end up right where they are now, again. That’s why they had this disaster to begin with the European mentality of the Lord & servant that still permeates every European run company I’ve seen. There are the PHDs that Rlanasa bragged about & the fact that no real working people were allowed to be in the genius room , & there is the servitude. The little people who don’t really count & have a certain price tag on their heads. That is exactly the way these people look at it & if you haven’t worked for a company like that then you should because that’s the way they think & the only way to get ahead with a company like that is to be the best ass kisser in the group. And the best ass kisser dopesn’t too often go hand in hand with the person who’s looking out for everybody’s safety & welfare.
Edit: Now you can accuse me of foreign bashing.[/QUOTE]
Try to be objective and stick with the issue at hand, not your personal hang-ups!!
Upstream Online is reporting that BP will be bringing in an unnamed FPSO and the 850,000bbl-capacity Loch Rannoch shuttle tanker to take over processing and storage duties from Discoverer Enterprise.
Meanwhile, BOA Deep C’s #2 ROV has spent a lot of time over the last two days measuring how far the wellhead and BOP are leaning away from vertical.