# Budget cuts to NOAA effecting the National Geodetic Survey and NWS **URL:** \ **Category:** Maritime News\ **Created:** [May 22, 2025, 10:27am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657 "2025-05-22T10:27:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jughead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jughead/32/4257_2.png) [@Jughead](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Jughead)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 7:20am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/21 "2025-05-24T07:20:54Z")
> [@BeerCaptain](#): > > None of those are marine forecasts. I don’t need that info. So you don’t need a great majority of NOAA’s output. Shut all that down so you get what you want. Is NOAA your personal service? My point, which you crassly evaded, was that private groups can get together and organise better weather and climate forecasts than they get from government sources and pay for them. Round the world yacht racers can do that. Commercial fishing fleets can do that. > [@BeerCaptain](#): > > Yes Bravo. > [@BeerCaptain](#): > > Getting rid of weather buoys is throwing the baby out with the bath water. So make that case to NOAA. Get your pressure group together and lobby. You live in a democracy where the government is supposedly responsive to the people and not just at elections. And after you’ve picked a few bits out of my post and grumbled and whined as you do, you’ve again evaded the critical issue; that governments have the right to cut expenditure on government services in order to reduce the spending of taxpayers funds, cover the astronomical interest payments, and eventually, live within your means and avoid a catastrophic financial collapse. Give me a sensible answer on that please. ---
**Author:** ![BeerCaptain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@BeerCaptain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BeerCaptain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 7:30am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/22 "2025-05-24T07:30:00Z")
> [@Jughead](#): > > So you don’t need a great majority of NOAA’s output. Shut all that down so you get what you want. Is NOAA your personal service? Is this a forum for farmers or mariners? If I were a farmer I’d likely say I want the land based products. > [@Jughead](#): > > My point, which you crassly evaded, was that private groups can get together and organise better weather and climate forecasts than they get from government sources and pay for them. Round the world yacht racers can do that. Commercial fishing fleets can do that. If they want to, sure. But there’s already a system in place that works well with existing infrastructure that the vast majority of mariners would like to keep. If private groups want to throw their data together great, but I don’t really trust Capt Ron 10 sheets to the wind sending in his weather report. Based on experience I trust the weather reports I get from NOAA considering they screen all the reports sent in and I’ve actually met a couple of the people running that program who can explain how it works. I understand your point, it’s just not a good point. A majority of the already privately run weather forecasts just scrape NOAA’s data and create a prettier picture for you. > [@Jughead](#): > > that governments have the right to cut expenditure on government services in order to reduce the spending of taxpayers funds, If the tax payers say to do it, yes. Besides you, I don’t see anyone here advocating for cutting this service. > [@Jughead](#): > > Give me a sensible answer on that please. A sensible answer to what? Living within our means? Ok. Stay out of wars, stop meddling in foreign governments, shut down the military industrial complex, and stop increasing the debt ceiling with this bullshit bill they’re pushing right now. Weather buoy data is not going to make a dent in the debt and “living within our means”. DOD/MARAD/MSC/SDDC, any of those government contract adjacent shipping agencies are poorly run and could be far, far more efficient. NOAA is not the biggest grifter affecting mariners. ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 10:07am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/23 "2025-05-24T10:07:40Z")
> [@Jughead](#): > > includes data gathered privately by people such as farmers, amateur observers, mining companies etc. that are not collected by government weather bureaus because they aren’t “official” or properly certified. That’s not correct, it’s an example of [Brandolini’s Law of bullshit](https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/bullshit-asymmetry-principle). [Own a Weather Station? We Want Your Data!](https://www.weather.gov/iln/cwop) [Become a NWS Cooperative Observer](https://www.weather.gov/wrn/get-involved) The local NWS office also requests rainfall / snow observations after a storm and puts the results on a NWS web page. ---
**Author:** ![tengineer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tengineer1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tengineer1)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 11:28am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/24 "2025-05-24T11:28:40Z")
It’s very telling that none of these deficit worrying congress people make any move to cut the criminal 1 Trillion+ ‘defense’ budget. Instead they increase it. I guess because there is no waste. in that trillion dollars. They are a joke ---
**Author:** ![freighterman1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/freighterman1/32/11176_2.png) [@freighterman1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/freighterman1)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 12:31pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/25 "2025-05-24T12:31:01Z")
> [@Jughead](#): > > But he implements it anyway and their heads explode. He wants a $100 million dollar military parade to celebrate his birthday. To do nothing but celebrate him. But then you cult members try to convince us that your Cheeto jesus is all about saving money. Go head. Try again. Convince me that spending $100 million dollars spent for a North Korean-style military parade, meant only to flatter a felon, is necessary spending. Go head. This ought to be epic level cult-logic on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Jughead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jughead/32/4257_2.png) [@Jughead](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Jughead)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 2:08pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/26 "2025-05-24T14:08:38Z")
> [@Kennebec\_Captain](#): > > That’s not correct, it’s an example of [Brandolini’s Law of bullshit](https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/bullshit-asymmetry-principle). You are a shining, slimy example of Brandolini’s Law of bullshit. That statement of mine was about Australia and people I know submitting privately collected observations to another private person I know who uses that data to construct rainfall forecasts which the farmers pay for and delivers a product that is far superior to the guesses from the official Bureau of Meteorology. In other words, it’s worth paying for a product even though there’s a free one. They don’t send their data to an untrustworthy BOM. If you could comprehend English it would have been painfully apparent. I wasn’t referring to your NWS, NOAA, LGBTQWTF or whatever it is that delivers your forecasts. I used my personal knowledge of a situation where private people get together and produce private climate and weather products and I simply assume there are many such cases throughout the world. I’m making a Brandolini size effort here to say that your government is perfectly entitled to cut costs and that NOAA can still deliver its products with financial belt tightening. You and everyone else cherry picks a particular item from the cuts and predicts disaster and catastrophe with all the outrage and hyperbole your limited language skills allow. Answer THAT! ---
**Author:** ![Jughead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jughead/32/4257_2.png) [@Jughead](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Jughead)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 2:14pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/27 "2025-05-24T14:14:24Z")
> [@freighterman1](#): > > He wants a $100 million dollar military parade to celebrate his birthday. Latest estimate $30 million. Did you add it up wrong? > [@freighterman1](#): > > To do nothing but celebrate him. Oh, and your army’s 250th anniversary. You left that bit out … deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![freighterman1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/freighterman1/32/11176_2.png) [@freighterman1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/freighterman1)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/29 "2025-05-24T15:03:47Z")
> [@Jughead](#): > > Oh, and your army’s 250th anniversary No. I have a decent memory. Trump was talking about useless military parades in his first term. No dates mentioned. Now, in his second term he wants one on his birthday. Then the cult retcons it to some bullshit about the US Army needing a birthday. It’s a birthday everyday for the U.S. army. We Americans give them lots of presents. You cultists are all about the USA going broke but when $30 million is being spent on a vanity parade for a felon you’re all, “Hey, it’s only $30 mil here, $30 mil there…” Easy for you. You’re not paying for it. But you can. Hey, it’s only $30 mil so why don’t you and the rest of the cult pay for it by donations? Since you love the army and hate debt. Right? Here’s a great fundraising idea ! Truth Social can sell matching knee pads you can all wear to the party with Dear Felon’s face on them!!! 😍 Only $99 a pair (made in China). That way when you kneel in front of him we all win. You kowtow your obeisance, and the rest of us don’t have to pay for it, or look at his orange bouffant mug. ---
**Author:** ![BeerCaptain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@BeerCaptain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BeerCaptain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/30 "2025-05-24T15:14:02Z")
> [@Jughead](#): > > You and everyone else cherry picks a particular item from the cuts and predicts disaster and catastrophe with all the outrage and hyperbole your limited language skills allow. Sweetie this is a mariners forum, where mariners discuss (usually) topics related to our matter of employment. Hence us talking about the weather buoys. For the sake of this forum/conversation, I do not give a flying fuck about the farmers in Australia pooling their weather data and sending em off to some bloke who makes a spreadsheet. All that makes is a farmers almanac anyways. We got one of those already. > [@Jughead](#): > > delivers a product that is far superior to the guesses from the official Bureau of Meteorology If your governments own department is guessing then that’s a you problem. Start using the farmers forecasts for the central pacific and lmk how well it works. I don’t know many farmers there sending in data to Colin in NSW hoping to update next years farmers almanac. ---
**Author:** ![Meme.Lord](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/meme.lord/32/29401_2.png) [@Meme.Lord](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Meme.Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 4:35pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/31 "2025-05-24T16:35:54Z")
The state of this thread: ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/5/2/52369656dcf2f8ada632df1d2b674fc4fd0125d6.jpeg) I think almost everyone agrees this is a major bummer of a news story. ---
**Author:** ![tengineer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tengineer1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tengineer1)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 5:21pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/32 "2025-05-24T17:21:02Z")
Indeed. As an aside. Due to a family interest I watched the entire speech presentation to the graduating class of the US Military Academy at West Point. The current president was the speaker and it was a rambling dementia mess like something Biden would do. If all the two political parties in the US can do is nominate senile fools who can be manipulated by handlers with an agenda it is time to do away with the two party system. ---
**Author:** ![Rock\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Rock\_Hill](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Rock_Hill)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 6:10pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/33 "2025-05-24T18:10:28Z")
It is telling (and sad) that the primary voice in this thread championing the policies of the current US president is NOT a US citizen (and also happens to be a climate change denier). Meanwhile the majority of comments overall are by a variety of US citizens all expressing frustration with the shortsightedness, corruption, and hypocrisy of the current US administration. ---
**Author:** ![Rock\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Rock\_Hill](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Rock_Hill)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 6:42pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/34 "2025-05-24T18:42:23Z")
> [@Jughead](#): > > from your vaunted NOAA and USN after receiving numerous observations over days from me, the only observer in the area. You speak of being the only observer in the area and of course less data and less observations mean an inferior model and less accurate forecasts. Do you realize budget cuts to NOAA will mean even less observations? On the one hand you are complaining that NOAA forecasts aren’t accurate for the middle of the ocean with you as the only observer, but at the same time you are advocating for NOAA budget cuts which will result in even less observations in even more areas making weather forecasts (both terrestrial and marine, as well as snow forecasts, and flood forecasts, and space weather predictions, and tide predictions, and current predictions, and tsunami detection and predictions, and nautical charting data, and fish population estimates) less robust and less accurate. Less data means less accuracy and less confidence regardless of the field of science that it happens to support. ---
**Author:** ![gumbyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@gumbyman](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/gumbyman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 7:29pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/35 "2025-05-24T19:29:30Z")
Both Dems and Repubs increase spending [https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/us-debt-by-president.html](https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/us-debt-by-president.html), the difference is the Republican propaganda is more effective in convincing voters they care about the budget. Trump’s big beautiful bill is yet another example of the farce but MAGA believes the lies wholeheartedly because critical thinking isn’t MAGA’s strong suit. ---
**Author:** ![Jughead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jughead/32/4257_2.png) [@Jughead](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Jughead)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 11:56pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/36 "2025-05-24T23:56:48Z")
What a joy it is to wake up in the morning and watch more socialist, Marxist, fascist, collectivist heads self detonating at their outrage over my sensible suggestions and the results of their very own democratic processes. You are heading for a major wake up call. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/a/f/af0b0b78cb9af1dc3a0e5ab27c2e6136382be5ee.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Memel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@Memel](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Memel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 1:48am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/37 "2025-05-25T01:48:25Z")
How about the insanity of cutting navigational buoys and replacing actual ATON with virtual ATON. Nope nothing to do with Doge, this was proposed and being implemented or planned for implementation by the USCG as early as 2014 or before. ---
**Author:** ![BeerCaptain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@BeerCaptain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BeerCaptain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 9:43am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/38 "2025-05-25T09:43:26Z")
> [@Jughead](#): > > outrage over my sensible suggestions and the results of their very own democratic processes. Nothing sensible about telling me to use a farmers data to sail across an ocean ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 9:44am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/39 "2025-05-25T09:44:08Z")
> [@Memel](#): > > How about the insanity of cutting navigational buoys and replacing actual ATON with virtual ATON. The ATON system hasn’t been updated in decades (AFAIK). It makes sense, given changes in nav technology that it should be at least be looked at. It’s very plausible that modernizing the system could make the system safer and more efficient at the same or lower cost. The CG is asking for public comment from working mariners, not just eliminating the entire system. ---
**Author:** ![Jughead](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jughead/32/4257_2.png) [@Jughead](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Jughead)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 9:58am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/40 "2025-05-25T09:58:05Z")
> [@BeerCaptain](#): > > Nothing sensible about telling me to use a farmers data to sail across an ocean Never said that. Read what I said. ---
**Author:** ![BeerCaptain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@BeerCaptain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BeerCaptain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2025, 10:17am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657/41 "2025-05-25T10:17:59Z")
Right sorry, I don’t need almanacs I need real time data and forecasts. John and Joan on their sailing yacht aren’t meteorologists and I don’t trust that their data means fuck all when they’re half in the bag sailing from one side of the harbor to the other. I prefer accurate, onsite, unbiased, raw data be collected and formatted by an actual meteorologist who can create a forecast. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/budget-cuts-to-noaa-effecting-the-national-geodetic-survey-and-nws/72657.md?page=3)