# Another TOAR question **URL:** \ **Category:** Tugs & Towing\ **Created:** [July 17, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626 "2023-07-17T21:58:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![hookedup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/53a042/32.png) [@hookedup](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/hookedup)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/1 "2023-07-17T21:58:38Z")
I currently hold have a 200T MOT for inland and WR. I’d like to get add 200ton mate of towing NC. At first I thought I just needed to take the Nav Gen: NC and the Nav Problems: NC but now I believe I need to take the tests and a TOAR. Is that right? If so I’d love any advice on getting an NC TOAR without going back to the deck on a near coastal vessel. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 6:48am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/2 "2023-07-18T06:48:29Z")
You can do a one day simulator course for the TOAR. Get an Oceans TOAR. A $1000 out of pocket expense, but done in one day which is cheaper and faster than screwing around. ---
**Author:** ![Chippin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/chippin/32/56107_2.png) [@Chippin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Chippin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 12:44pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/3 "2023-07-18T12:44:06Z")
> [@tugsailor](#): > > You can do a one day simulator course for the TOAR. Get an Oceans TOAR. A $1000 out of pocket expense What kind of observation time is needed with only a 200t license though? And how would he get Towing Oceans on an inland or NC route? as far as the observation goes, I am pretty sure it’s 30 days with 500t+ but it’s been a while so can’t remember what it is for less than. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 2:22pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/4 "2023-07-18T14:22:57Z")
> [@hookedup](#): > > I currently hold have a 200T MOT for inland and WR. Do you have a 200 ton license and a Master of Towing towing **OR** do you have a Master of Towing limited to 200 tons? ---
**Author:** ![silverbk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@silverbk](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/silverbk)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/5 "2023-07-18T15:24:08Z")
From the [checklist](https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/checklists/mcp_fm_nmc5_27_web.pdf): To add a route: Near Coastal/Oceans – 90 days of observation and training; AND NC/Oceans TOAR; AND evidence of Apprentice Mate/Steersman NC/Oceans course/testing. NOTE: No testing required if requested route is held as AMS or Mate (Pilot) on the requested route as master. See exam guide to determine testing for adding routes. To remove a tonnage limitation: For mariners who were grandfathered with tonnage to match the inspected deck officer endorsement (Example: Master 100 GRT inspected with Master T/V 100 GRT). Not to be used for limited geographic endorsements. NVIC [03-16](https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO%20Documents/5p/5ps/NVIC/2016/NVIC-3-16-Towing-Incl-CH-3-20200909.pdf?ver=2020-09-10-162100-893)  1. Completion of Apprentice Mate (Steersman) Exam or course, route appropriate. Note: There is no equivalent or superior exam to remove the tonnage limitation on the T/V Endorsement. The equivalent or superior exam only applies to those who have never held Master of T/V and have met grandfathering per NVIC 3- 16, Enclosure (10), see Checklist for National Grandfathering of Master & Mate (Pilot) of towing Vessels. Requirements The relevant text from nvic [3-16](https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO%20Documents/5p/5ps/NVIC/2016/NVIC-3-16-Towing-Incl-CH-3-20200909.pdf?ver=2020-09-10-162100-893): d. Grandfathering of Towing Vessel Endorsements/Tonnage Limits. 1. Mariners may be grandfathered to endorsements as Mate (Pilot) or Master of towing vessels as described in Enclosure (10). Mariners may be grandfathered if they have experience operating towing vessels prior to May 21, 2001; 46 CFR 11.463(d). 2. Some mariners previously grandfathered to the towing vessel endorsements may have a tonnage restriction on their endorsement. To remove the tonnage restriction, mariners must take the steersman examination(s) for the appropriate route(s). ---
**Author:** ![hookedup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/53a042/32.png) [@hookedup](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/hookedup)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 3:45pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/6 "2023-07-18T15:45:17Z")
I believe a 200 ton license and a master of towing. Sorry for the poor wording. Coming from pushboats, licensing stuff is never discussed since it’s just one class and you’re good to go for your career. So trying to get into something different is a whole new world. ---
**Author:** ![hookedup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/53a042/32.png) [@hookedup](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/hookedup)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/7 "2023-07-18T15:54:10Z")
> **[mcp\_fm\_nmc5\_28\_web.pdf](https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/checklists/mcp_fm_nmc5_28_web.pdf)** > > 150.90 KB I believe this is the checklist I’m going off of since I’m just going for the mates license near coastal HOLDS MASTER TOWING VESSELS (LIMITED): 46 CFR 30 days of training & observation on towing vessels on a particular route; 90 days for Western Rivers (still required even if route already held as AMS); WITH 1 Appropriate TOAR OR approved TOAR course AND 2 Pass an exam (unless AMS exam or course previously completed) ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/8 "2023-07-18T16:01:51Z")
> [@hookedup](#): > > I believe a 200 ton license and a master of towing. What exactly does it say on your MMC? > [@hookedup](#): > > I’d like to get add 200ton mate of towing NC. If they are separate licenses then the 200 ton NC and the Mate of Towing NC are separate with separate requirements. The Mate of Towing is simple, Master of Towing Inland qualifies for Mate of Towing NC automatically, you’ll just need to take the NC/Oceans Apprentice Mate exam and that’s it. You then can work as mate and get your NC/Oceans TOAR completed while working as mate. Once you turn in your NC TOAR with 90 days on NC routes you get Master of Towing NC. Here’s the relevant section from the [checklist](https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/checklists/mcp_fm_nmc5_28_web.pdf) ![Screenshot_20230718-115911](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/b/4/b46e573891bc51c64587f64a0695af2bf755c479.jpeg) : ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/9 "2023-07-18T16:10:22Z")
> [@hookedup](#): > > I believe this is the checklist I’m going off of since I’m just going for the mates license near coastal > > HOLDS MASTER TOWING VESSELS (LIMITED): That’s why it matters what license(s) you actually hold. Do you hold Master of Towing or Master of Towing (Limited)? ---
**Author:** ![jdcavo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/jdcavo/32/108_2.png) [@jdcavo](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/jdcavo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/10 "2023-07-18T16:37:48Z")
> [@hookedup](#): > > I believe… You don’t know what is in your own MMC? ---
**Author:** ![hookedup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/53a042/32.png) [@hookedup](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/hookedup)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/11 "2023-07-18T17:11:23Z")
I see what you’re saying thank you. So I do have a master of towing on inland and WR. And a mate license of less than 200GRT Inland ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/12 "2023-07-18T17:14:13Z")
> [@hookedup](#): > > So I do have a master of towing on inland and WR. Then you can apply for Mate of Towing NC right now, you’ll just have to take the Apprentice Mate NC exam. ---
**Author:** ![hookedup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/53a042/32.png) [@hookedup](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/hookedup)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/13 "2023-07-18T17:16:31Z")
Ok that is what I originally thought. Thanks very much for your help ---
**Author:** ![hookedup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/53a042/32.png) [@hookedup](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/hookedup)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/14 "2023-07-18T17:23:06Z")
I know I make it seem that way. The wording of different coast guard things just screws me up every time. Also no one in my industry is ever trying to upgrade their license so I’m forced to ask dumbass questions to the internet lol ---
**Author:** ![silverbk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@silverbk](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/silverbk)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/15 "2023-07-18T17:43:17Z")
Are you limited to a certain geographic areas or only for tonnage? ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/16 "2023-07-18T19:16:51Z")
I believe a TOAR one day simulator class can cover any and all routes. Ocean and Near Coastal are essentially the same class. Oceans covers everything except Western Rivers. So get an Oceans TOAR. He will need 30 days (20-12 hour days) of coastal, oceans, or Great Lakes observer time ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:45pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/17 "2023-07-18T22:45:41Z")
> [@tugsailor](#): > > He will need 30 days (20-12 hour days) of coastal, oceans, or Great Lakes observer time No, it’s 90 days or 60 12-hour days. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/18 "2023-07-19T01:23:42Z")
I agree 90 days for first master or mate of towing, but he already has master of towing. Is it still another 90 days for someone with master of towing seeking an extension of route, not a raise in grade? Another thing, as a Master of Towing WR, can’t he get Mate of Towing Near Coastal without any near coastal time? Just an exam. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 1:26am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/19 "2023-07-19T01:26:39Z")
> [@tugsailor](#): > > can’t he get Mate of Towing Near Coastal without any near coastal time? Just an exam. Yes. > [@Capt\_Phoenix](#): > > Master of Towing Inland qualifies for Mate of Towing NC automatically, you’ll just need to take the NC/Oceans Apprentice Mate exam and that’s it. You then can work as mate and get your NC/Oceans TOAR completed while working as mate. Once you turn in your NC TOAR with 90 days on NC routes you get Master of Towing NC. > > Here’s the relevant section from the [checklist](https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/checklists/mcp_fm_nmc5_28_web.pdf) > > ![Screenshot_20230718-115911](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/b/4/b46e573891bc51c64587f64a0695af2bf755c479.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Chippin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/chippin/32/56107_2.png) [@Chippin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Chippin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626/20 "2023-07-19T01:59:55Z")
> [@tugsailor](#): > > I believe a TOAR one day simulator class can cover any and all routes. Ocean and Near Coastal are essentially the same class That would be silly, but obtaining a TOAR in a simulator to me is also laughable so I guess it wouldn’t surprise me. The observation and training has to be completed on the intended route, not in a simulator. See 46 CFR 11.465 (d) 1 [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/another-toar-question/66626.md?page=2)