Why would anyone in their right mind kiss the ring of an organization that is seeing ships leave left and right while other unions flag in new tonnage?? (not just including the CMA-CMG ships)???
That’s literally food for YOUR UNION BROTHERS and their families flying off the table.
It’s in no way the straw that’s going to break the camel’s back. But what’s the positive news?
Despite having ample time to cut the crap with APL and get a contract, no contract was signed. How about making amends with the other Unions and working a deal?- nope again!
That is a reflection on poor leadership. PERIOD!
A Hail Mary at an ALF-CIO hearing is not good news.
Tell them to do a better job. More ships less talk.
Until now, I don’t think a single person posting on this thread has alleged ‘ring kissing’ was on the table, so not sure where you got this from. As soon as CMA CGM announced this expansion of US Flag service, it was already calculated that this Osprey might come out of its nest. No surprise at all, but we can’t stop it before it happens. GD was never going to be swayed. If MEBA had pitched an all officer bid, he would have trashed that as well. Do you think GD ever entertained bids from SUP or MFOW? Fuck no! That’s the whole reason for Osprey. So no we go through the process. It is what it is. If calling it a Hail Mary makes you feel better, so be it. It is in fact not our last legitimate method on the table.
MMP did get new jobs, it’s called OSG and a 10th APL ship. That 10th one is non MSP. I have faith OSG will be around longer than CMA CGM non-MSP / non-Jones act ships. If MMP is so bad then why did those LDOs choose not to go to MEBA? Ask them…Ask MEBA. I’m sure many MMP are not happy those OSG non-Capts will get automatic A books at time of ratification, but that’s the price of admission for bringing back something that was in our fold 40 yrs ago.
As far as losing jobs, we clearly have ZERO control over LMSRs deactivating and just as little over future contract awards between MSC and MARAD. 5 unions will be losing a lot of billets there, seemingly forever. EXPRESS ships…. that has not been an MMP contract ever. The writing has been on the wall for the death of the passthru agreement since practically before GCaptain was created. I thought it should have been scuttled years ago, but here we are, finally.
Dude wake up! You sound like a clueless Union official that only has tunnel vision. You ignored my question as to whether you were a Union official. Maybe you work for MMP idk.
Don’t count OSG there has been no follow through on that.
Now you want me to share details! Try google- It’s simple. How many Tanker Security Ships are MMP? - Zero. Two new MSP slots from the OSG ships leaving, is the MMP on those? - No. More recently just look at the AMO press releases on their website. Practically every month they get a new ship in. Their President even had an open letter that told their members hey we are loosing government contract ships but we are working hard to get new work and here is what is coming and there is more to come.
What does the MMP head Wizards do when the LSMR leave- They throw up their hands and say it’s out of our control there is nothing we can do! How about securing new work? I mean there should be some urgency, don’t you think!?
Ok so what are the other legitimate methods after this AFL-CIO hearing? Please do explain. Unless you are a Union official and can’t.
ALSO why was MEBA able to get work on these vessels by going to AMO but MMP wasn’t didn’t do the same?
I wonder if the relationship at the top between the AMO and MMP was too poor to even suggest it. Or was such a deal turned down?
If it makes you feel better, NO, not an official, just a member for about 20 yrs now who makes an honest effort to be apprised of what I can within my union realm and current events. I certainly can’t know everything.
OSG…. It can’t go any further because of what Trump did to NLRB, which concerns all the unions of all the industries, or at least it should.
Sure, I could Google shit, but you brought it up, so why don’t you post what you are so confident as being fact and let the the rest of us see if you are telling the truth. I’m certainly willing to look up whatever you post.
MMP barely has enough TPIC holders to man what we do have so I’m not too concerned with TSP jobs. I don’t feel like it was something attainable for Patriot/SLNC/etc so moving on. Same COULD be said of MEBA… they got the Allied Pacific tanker job and have/had trouble filling those LDO slots with their mates so MMP was filling some of those slots, including Capt at some point.
I can’t comment on further avenues of fighting OSPREY SHIP MGMT because of previous stated confidential nature of my conversations with union official.
I cannot speak factually for HQ MMP relationship with AMO. I would gamble that it is next to zero. I personally would not be in favor of any alliance with them, but clearly I’m only one member. HQ may feel different, and many other MMP members as well; I simply don’t know. SOMETIMES, desperate times call for desperate measures, but MMP isn’t there yet.
I cannot speak for why MEBA made their alliance with AMO, but I’m sure it was a calculated move. It may be more about the passthru expiring than anything else, not sure. Might be pre-emptive strike based on LMSR lay-up’s. Multi layered, to be sure.
One thing I do feel confident in is that MEBA HQ just thinks very little (if not hates) of MMP HQ. I do not agree with letters put out by AV about MMP and passthru math. I think they are unprofessional and undermine all the unions images at the same time. Unfortunately, I don’t think that relationship is going to get mended anytime soon.
What you are asking is just a list of new tonnage ships MMP isn’t on that have been flagged in within the last year- this public information you can find too.
You keep bringing up the AFL-CIO hearing but fail to post concrete info about it, then why bring it up?
The Allied Pacific was an MMP deck officer contract. Now you’re saying that ship is lost to MEBA now? That’s news to me!
I’ve been following this thread and you have been very rude to JohnnyCanal. Despite being a 20+year member of MMP
he seems to have remained agnostic/respectful to all of this while discussing this ordeal. Quit being a dick and stop being so offended. YOU must be a union official.
No I am definitely not a Union official. The situation is terribly frustrating and how could one not be offended by it? And once again I feel like I am being gaslit. So therefore I will stop responding and instead be a spectator to this thread. Felt it was okay to express my feelings and get some answers or hear about a game plan but it’s clear there isn’t one.
Every MMP member I’ve spoken with is frustrated with the current leadership. I understand his concerns about new tonnage. AMO seems to be securing new jobs consistently, while MMP hasn’t landed any in a long time, and I’m not counting OSG, which likely won’t be ratified for another three years. If I were an applicant or a new graduate, I’d probably have jumped ship by now, looking at the future of the unions objectively.
MY ADMITTED MISTAKE, I MEANT TO SAY SEAKAY STAR (under Keystone).
As far as AFL CIO hearing there is nothing to be shared by anyone. They have collected all supporting documents from both sides at this point and make their decision. I am not withholding any relevant information, and neither is MMP HQ or AMO/SIU. It’s simply a waiting game now. It’s not publicly searchable nor was the hearing publicly accessible
I believe that is your experience as you stated. However I would openly challenge how many of them actually speak to leadership to voice their concerns on whether they don’t like what HQ / VPs or doing/not doing, how company ABC might be trying (or is actually doing ) to not follow/violate CBA language, coerce senior officers into things that go against very clear SMS / federal law??? I will take a gamble and say it’s less than a third of all the people you talk within MMP. That’s the real problem. Lots of complaining with not enough personal communication and personal investigating. If nothing else, there should MMP people on this thread to support their own union when it’s getting dumped all over. And yet it looks like there’s a whopping 3 or 4 of us.
Applicants and members alike can complain about leadership all they want…. All while some ships are standing euro nav watches in violation of certain CBAs and other USEC ships take a dump on the barrel watch provision just so the company can manipulate their SMS policies to stay compliant with STCW rest hour rules. AND hardly anybody says anything to those specific ships or the VPs. That’s a problem right there of the active sailors making.
And no…. I’m not an official. I just make a point of knowing what’s going on as much as I can.
I’ve had direct conversations with multiple MMP officials regarding exactly what you’re talking about CBA violations, STCW rest hour issues, and other company infractions. In my experience, they’ve taken those matters seriously and acted to hold companies accountable when issues are raised properly.
That said, I think Carrot Top’s frustration isn’t just about violations. It’s about the bigger picture. AMO is consistently securing new ships. MMP isn’t. With LMSR FOS and Express contracts disappearing, younger applicants and recent grads are watching closely and many are jumping ship toward AMO or even MSC.
I want MMP to thrive. Accountability and enforcement are critical, yes but so is growth. Without new tonnage, the rest doesn’t matter.
I’m definitely glad you have some of the same concerns I do and have talked to VPs. Problem is, they can’t make the companies follow the CBA unless grievances are filed by those LDOs. They can enforce shipping rules/work rules.
Yeah AMO would not want to jeopardize being kicked out of AFL CIO. AFL CIO is very powerful and I would not want to be on their bad side by brushing off their ruling.
An Impartial Umpire from the AFL-CIO, the national federation of unions, has concluded that AMO/SIU violated AFL-CIO rules by wrongfully working Licensed Deck Officer billets that are MM&P’s jurisdiction aboard APL’s newly flagged in vessel the CMA-CGM Phoenix.
MM&P has, and will continue, fighting to protect our members’ work jurisdiction aboard new tonnage brought into the APL fleet, most recently the CMA-CGM Phoenix.
Part of MM&P’s advocacy has been through a process at the AFL-CIO that seeks to protect the jurisdiction of one union’s work from any raiding actions by other unions. This is commonly referred to as an Article XX hearing/proceeding; Art. XX is a reference to an important part of the AFL-CIO Constitution.
An Article XX hearing was held on July 16, 2025, at the AFL-CIO offices in Washington, D.C. MM&P received notice on July 30, 2025, of the outcome and conclusions from the AFL-CIO Article XX Impartial Umpire, Michael Gottesman.
Gottesman’s conclusions are:
American Maritime Officers (AMO)/Seafarers International Union (SIU) is in violation of Article XX, Sections 2 and 3. The CMA-CGM Phoenix is covered by MM&P’s recognition clause.
MM&P is not in violation of Article XX, Section 20.
MM&P will provide additional updates as the situation develops. A special thanks to our expert legal team and to the MM&P members who provided many hours of assistance toward this effort.
