# Abandoned without food or pay. Happens all the time **URL:** \ **Category:** Admiralty Law\ **Created:** [August 30, 2016, 8:09am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602 "2016-08-30T08:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/41 "2017-06-26T17:14:01Z")
IMO is also stepping in to solve the problem of crew abandonment: [http://splash247.com/imo-vows-crackdown-seafarer-abandonment/](http://splash247.com/imo-vows-crackdown-seafarer-abandonment/) Will that help to put a stop to this practise?? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![MateChristine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MateChristine](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/MateChristine)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/42 "2017-06-26T21:24:55Z")
As a mariner who volunteers on the board of two seafarers missions, I have seen the ITF be effective in helping mariners who are abandoned or wronged. Sometimes it takes them a while to make headway but they work very hard on behalf of mariners world wide ---
**Author:** ![neutrino78x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@neutrino78x](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/neutrino78x)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/43 "2017-06-28T05:32:27Z")
Shipmates, isn’t this because she is flying a Flag of Convenience?? 😮 In other words, neither Australian nor UK law applies, as the ship is considered the soil of whatever 3rd world country in which she is registered, right? 😮 ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 12:03pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/44 "2017-06-30T12:03:46Z")
Which post are you replying to?? There have been several cases discussed in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![neutrino78x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@neutrino78x](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/neutrino78x)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/45 "2017-07-01T03:45:44Z")
ombugge, yeah the attribution system on here is a little weird…I’m reacting to the August 16 post, which linked to this: [http://gcaptain.com/shipowners-slash-costs-crews-left-behind/](http://gcaptain.com/shipowners-slash-costs-crews-left-behind/) ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 10:50am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/46 "2017-10-09T10:50:25Z")
With the world’s biggest Ship managers boycotting Owners who abandon crew a message is being sent, but it is hardly going to stop the scourge since they are not likely to take on such Owners in the first place: > **[World’s top shipmanagers pledge not to do business with owners who have...](http://splash247.com/worlds-top-shipmanagers-pledge-not-business-owners-abandoned-crews/)** > > The world’s largest international third party shipmanagers with one notable exception – Executive Ship Management – have today pledged not to conduct business with any owner who has a recent history of abandoning crews, in the first step of a Splash... Splash 24/7 is doing a good job highlighting this problem by campaigning for change and shaming authorities that does not take action. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/47 "2017-10-09T11:07:21Z")
I see the Brits have seized a vessel (OSV) to sell to pay out the crew, that the way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Kraken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Kraken](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kraken)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/48 "2017-10-09T12:12:11Z")
It just took a couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/49 "2017-10-09T13:37:56Z")
all that back pay, better than being home unemployed. But yes untold hardship for the family that has been back at home. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:15am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/50 "2017-10-10T11:15:30Z")
Has the shipping world, (+IMO and Government bodies around the world) got “moral duty” to stamp out crew abandonment?? The IMO boss think so: > **[IMO boss says shipping has a ‘human duty’ to stamp out crew abandonment -](http://splash247.com/imo-boss-says-shipping-human-duty-stamp-crew-abandonment/)** > > The secretary-general of the International Maritime Organization (IMO) has spoken of shipping’s “human duty” to ensure crew abandonment is kicked out. In an exclusive interview with Splash as part of this site’s crew abandonment campaign, Kitack Lim,... ---
**Author:** ![Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/51 "2017-10-10T11:53:45Z")
I would like to see the US federal government sieze abandoned ships after a short period, say 60 days or so, and sell them. Give the money remaining after paying debts accumulated since arrival to the crew. If the feds sieze the boat it can be sold and flagged US with a coastwise trading document … it’s a good way to add to the Jones Act fleet. If the ship is a rustbucket there is still enough value to pay the crew. Ban the beneficial owners from ever doing business in the US again. The ship might be a separate company but the owners are people who can be sanctioned. If the IMO is truly interested in stopping this crime against seafarers it must be made more than a “human duty” it must be made a crime and cost the owners dearly. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/52 "2017-10-10T12:09:08Z")
It is not so much a US problem, as few crews have been stranded in the US, or on US flag ships anywhere. It has to be dealt with on an international basis, with all serious players in shipping doing their bit, maybe starting with IMO. But IMO doesn’t have any enforcement capability, other than member state authorities. That it took two years to settle a case in UK is an example that present laws and willingness to go to the full extent of the law is lacking. If the shipping fraternity itself does not pull it’s weight, nothing will help. ---
**Author:** ![Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 12:18pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/53 "2017-10-10T12:18:48Z")
> [@ombugge](#): > > It is not so much a US problem, as few crews have been stranded in the US … My point is that even if there is only one ship a year or even 5 years in the US that is too many and should be dealt with instantly. Of course it is an international problem and should be dealt with the same way in every country, preferably the way I suggested. There should never be “unknown owners” or crews abandoned for more than a few weeks. > **[The Maritime Industry's Unsteady Waters](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-07-12/what-abandoned-ships-say-about-the-global-economy)** > > A casino ship and crew left in Hong Kong reveal a sector vulnerable to economic shock waves. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/54 "2017-10-10T14:31:35Z")
When a crew is abandoned for 10 days in the US, they should be promptly flown home. The ship should be seized and sold within another 30 days. ---
**Author:** ![Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/55 "2017-10-10T16:24:15Z")
> [@tugsailor](#): > > When a crew is abandoned for 10 days in the US, they should be promptly flown home. The ship should be seized and sold within another 30 days. I’d vote for that if my vote meant anything or if I ever had the opportunity to participate in making labor laws labor friendly instead of the other way around. The crew wages should be paid by the government and the balance of the money remaining from the sale and repayment of the wage advance should go directly to the crew. If the crimps working for the Philippine manning agencies don’t get paid maybe that will give them reason not to deal with unscrupulous owners. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 1:59pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/56 "2017-10-13T13:59:02Z")
The two large International Shipowners Associations are not responding to Slpash 24/7’s campaign against crew abandonment: > **[Intertanko and Intercargo refuse to condemn crew abandonment -](http://splash247.com/intertanko-intercargo-refuse-condemn-crew-abandonment/)** > > Two of the world’s leading shipowning organisations have refused to condemn crew abandonment. Contacted last week in preparation for the Splash seafarer abandonment campaign, neither Intertanko, nor its dry bulk counterpart, Intercargo, have deigned... International Chamber of Shipping (ICS) head and head of Singapore Shipping Association, Esben Poulsson is very much involved though. There is now a list of abandoned ship available: [http://www.ilo.org/dyn/seafarers/seafarersBrowse.list?p\_lang=en](http://www.ilo.org/dyn/seafarers/seafarersBrowse.list?p_lang=en) As can be seen the problem is not a small one. : ---
**Author:** ![Tellarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@Tellarian](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Tellarian)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/57 "2017-10-13T14:13:51Z")
Splash 247 have just updated: > **[Quit Weining -](http://splash247.com/quit-weining/)** > > Kate Adamson, the founder of Futurenautics, draws parallels between Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein and shipping’s rotten apples. Hollywood is having a bit of a moment—you may have noticed. In case you haven’t, mogul and serial Oscar-winning... ---
**Author:** ![Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/58 "2017-10-13T14:19:41Z")
> [@ombugge](#): > > The two large International Shipowners Associations are not responding If we lived in a perfect world where mariner’s rights were acknowledged and protected from corporate parasites and their clubs, I would look forward to their response to having member’s ships siezed and sold within weeks of abandoning crew. What possible rationale could those august organizations have for refusing to condemn what really is a crime against humanity? Maybe it is time to take labor action against ships operated by those who by their failure to even condemn crew abandonment have identified themselves as parasitic scumbags. ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/59 "2017-10-13T14:22:31Z")
a bank guarantee to be allowed to stop at a port would cover lots of it ---
**Author:** ![Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2017, 7:48am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/60 "2017-10-14T07:48:36Z")
No bank guarantees, no bonds, no bail, no get out of jail free cards … as soon as the crew reports being abandoned the ship and cargo should be siezed and every other ship owned by the beneficial owners should also be detained. When the beneficial owners are so well hidden that they cannot be identified then that itself should be good enough reason to declare the ship abandoned and sold instantly. This crime against humanity has to be made to hurt those who commit it. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602.md?page=4)