# Abandoned without food or pay. Happens all the time **URL:** \ **Category:** Admiralty Law\ **Created:** [August 30, 2016, 8:09am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602 "2016-08-30T08:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Emrobu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/emrobu/32/6696_2.png) [@Emrobu](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Emrobu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:09am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/1 "2016-08-30T08:09:11Z")
It’s no mystery why this happens all the time and why it may be happening more and more, recently. I want to know why nobody seems able to do anything about it? We have charities out there that have the money to build new and state of the art to chase fish poachers all over the world. But a couple of guys in a runabout can’t take groceries to a ship stuck in the harbour for three years? There are law firms that specialize in punishing cruise ships when someone’s porthole view is obstructed by life boats, but no one can figure out how to get breadwinners the paychecks that they have earned? [http://gcaptain.com/shipowners-slash-costs-crews-left-behind/](http://gcaptain.com/shipowners-slash-costs-crews-left-behind/) ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 9:16am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/2 "2016-08-30T09:16:28Z")
The authorities in Gladstone, Australia is reluctant to let crew members on a ship that has been detained six weeks to even get shore leave, let along allow welfare organizations access to the vessel to help: [http://splash247.com/itf-demands-stranded-five-stars-fujian-crew-allowed-ashore/](http://splash247.com/itf-demands-stranded-five-stars-fujian-crew-allowed-ashore/) Could it have something to do with the crew being Chinese nationals?? ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lee\_Shore](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lee_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 9:48am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/3 "2016-08-30T09:48:55Z")
[QUOTE=ombugge;189675]The authorities in Gladstone, Australia is reluctant to let crew members on a ship that has been detained six weeks to even get shore leave, let along allow welfare organizations access to the vessel to help: [http://splash247.com/itf-demands-stranded-five-stars-fujian-crew-allowed-ashore/](http://splash247.com/itf-demands-stranded-five-stars-fujian-crew-allowed-ashore/) Could it have something to do with the crew being Chinese nationals??[/QUOTE] It has something to do with their being foreigners. Australia has a recent history of being ruthless with asylum seekers and it is reflected in their treatment of the stranded sailors. The NYT has been running a series of reports on the subject. This is the most recent: > **[Opinion | Australia’s Gulag Archipelago](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/31/opinion/australias-gulag-archipelago.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=F797BEA17EA621B182173642FD5226EC&gwt=pay&assetType=opinion)** > > The conditions of refugee detention centers on remote islands are a national disgrace. But can shame force reform? ---
**Author:** ![Emrobu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/emrobu/32/6696_2.png) [@Emrobu](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Emrobu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/4 "2016-08-30T11:41:24Z")
It’s a bigger problem than just Australian xenophobia. The story in post 1 features a Bagladeshi crew outside of Shanghai. It’s been a big problem on the Black Sea for years with crew from the former Soviet block. No one is responsible, because no one clearly owns the ships. If it happens now to ships that are inspected, and crews who are licensed, how much worse is it on the slave-run fishing boats? They’re lives aren’t worth much to the ones that feed them even when they are making money. > **[‘Sea Slaves’: The Human Misery That Feeds Pets and Livestock](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/27/world/outlaw-ocean-thailand-fishing-sea-slaves-pets.html?_r=1)** > > Men who have fled servitude on fishing boats recount beatings and worse as nets are cast for the catch that will become pet food and livestock feed. ---
**Author:** ![Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/5 "2016-08-30T13:57:25Z")
[QUOTE=Emrobu;189682] No one is responsible, because no one clearly owns the ships. [/QUOTE] If the beneficial owner cannot be reached, or the situation rectified within say, 30 days, the ship should be siezed by the port state and sold, moorage fees deducted and the remainder divided among the crew. It is a problem that is very easy to solve. Leave your car on the side of the freeway and watch what happens to it if you don’t remove it or claim it and pay whatever costs have accrued since you abandoned it. This is one more example of welfare payments to bankers and campaign contributors. ---
**Author:** ![Emrobu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/emrobu/32/6696_2.png) [@Emrobu](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Emrobu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/6 "2016-08-30T14:51:18Z")
I like the way you think, man. Let’s start a reality show. Like pawn stars and repo-man with heart. If an autistic karaoke star from Loch Nowheredeenshire can make prime time cry for joy, what could handing a couple hundred grand to a hungry homesick working man with a family to feed do? ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lee\_Shore](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lee_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 5:07pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/7 "2016-08-30T17:07:24Z")
[QUOTE=Emrobu;189682]It’s a bigger problem than just Australian xenophobia. The story in post 1 features a Bagladeshi crew outside of Shanghai. It’s been a big problem on the Black Sea for years with crew from the former Soviet block. No one is responsible, because no one clearly owns the ships. If it happens now to ships that are inspected, and crews who are licensed, how much worse is it on the slave-run fishing boats? They’re lives aren’t worth much to the ones that feed them even when they are making money. > **[‘Sea Slaves’: The Human Misery That Feeds Pets and Livestock](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/27/world/outlaw-ocean-thailand-fishing-sea-slaves-pets.html?_r=1%5B/QUOTE%5D)** > > Men who have fled servitude on fishing boats recount beatings and worse as nets are cast for the catch that will become pet food and livestock feed. You are mixing up two different problems. Professional sailors who get stuck in ports without provisions and owed back pay are dealing with an employer who is not honoring a contract. They are employees with a grievance. In its initial development, their situation is treated as a civil matter. Slaves on fishing boats are not employees. They are kidnapped by the same type of subhuman vultures who abduct women and children and force them into the sex trade. They are the victims of predators who don’t subscribe to humanity’s most basic principles. It’s a criminal issue. ---
**Author:** ![Emrobu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/emrobu/32/6696_2.png) [@Emrobu](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Emrobu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/8 "2016-08-30T18:27:25Z")
For sure. Two different issues. But not unrelated. Both involve workers trapped on boats and not being taken care of, and both are a violation of the law. If there is a law-enforcement body or charitable outfit equipped to deal with one of those situations, it is probably in a good position to deal with the other one, too. It’s possible to imagine a situation where the distinction between the two types of situations isn’t black and white until you get on board and talk to the workers. I have an awful lot to say right now, but none of it is calm or considered. ---
**Author:** ![Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Steamer](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Steamer)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/9 "2016-08-31T01:43:05Z")
[QUOTE=Lee Shore;189689] They are the victims of predators who don’t subscribe to humanity’s most basic principles. It’s a criminal issue.[/QUOTE] They are all victims of economic predators who are allowed to exist because they pay for the laws that protect the predators, not the victims. Considering today’s over the top “security” climate, no ship owned by an invisible and unreachable (not to mention untouchable) owner should be allowed to enter any port outside its flag state. Until abandoned crews profit more than the predators who pocketed the money and walked away, this will continue. It is way past time to make it more painful for them than the crews. Animals have more protection under the laws of most “civilized” nations than mariners. If you starve a horse or dog you can go to jail … do the same to a ship’s crew and you just start another shipping company. I can’t post what I really think should be done to the owners of those ships … ---
**Author:** ![Lee\_Shore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Lee\_Shore](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Lee_Shore)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/10 "2016-08-31T05:58:17Z")
There are instances where mariners are late in getting paid because of some snafu and the problem is fixed before things get out of hand and that situation is what I referred to as a civil matter. I agree that if the abandonment of a ship’s crew is willful, it’s a criminal offense and the responsible operators should absolutely pay with jail time. When it comes to illegal fishing cartels who kidnap their victims and enslave them, that is an extra notch on the depravity scale and I would have no qualms about ending a human trafficker’s theft of oxygen with extreme prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/11 "2016-09-02T02:26:49Z")
The Five Stars Fujian has been released but banned from Australia: [http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/201048/five-stars-fujian-released-banned-from-australia-for-a-year/](http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/201048/five-stars-fujian-released-banned-from-australia-for-a-year/) ---
**Author:** ![catherder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@catherder](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/catherder)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/12 "2016-09-03T03:07:21Z")
Seems to happen to Chinese flagged and crewed ships. One that I recall pulled into APMT Portsmouth VA and the crew of Chinese nationals begged the stevedores for food. The stevedores passed the hat for food money and the Coast Guard stepped in to detain the vessel. This is the 21st century where global communication is a nanosecond away and this shit is still happening. People suck. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 1:19am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/13 "2016-09-08T01:19:30Z")
The Hanjin debacle has stranded several large Container ships at anchor or at sea without supplies. Luckily Hanjin is not doing what others have done in the past, prioritizing creditors before crew: [http://fairplay.ihs.com/commerce/article/4274681/hanjin-sends-supplies-to-replenish-stricken-vessels](http://fairplay.ihs.com/commerce/article/4274681/hanjin-sends-supplies-to-replenish-stricken-vessels) ---
**Author:** ![Emrobu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/emrobu/32/6696_2.png) [@Emrobu](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Emrobu)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2016, 6:00am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/14 "2016-09-08T06:00:48Z")
[QUOTE=ombugge;190026]The Hanjin debacle has stranded several large Container ships at anchor or at sea without supplies. Luckily Hanjin is not doing what others have done in the past, prioritizing creditors before crew: [http://fairplay.ihs.com/commerce/article/4274681/hanjin-sends-supplies-to-replenish-stricken-vessels[/QUOTE]](http://fairplay.ihs.com/commerce/article/4274681/hanjin-sends-supplies-to-replenish-stricken-vessels%5B/QUOTE%5D) That’s the power of daylight. They are too much in the public eye to do the wrong thing. Even my painter friend had heard of Hanjin and their troubles. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2016, 9:51am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/15 "2016-10-20T09:51:07Z")
Maybe something will come of the new MLC amendment to help abandoned crews?: [http://splash247.com/crew-abandonment-cases-soar-vexing-industry/](http://splash247.com/crew-abandonment-cases-soar-vexing-industry/) ---
**Author:** ![powerabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@powerabout](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/powerabout)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/16 "2016-10-22T03:13:51Z")
[QUOTE=Lee Shore;189678]It has something to do with their being foreigners. Australia has a recent history of being ruthless with asylum seekers and it is reflected in their treatment of the stranded sailors. The NYT has been running a series of reports on the subject. This is the most recent: > **[Opinion | Australia’s Gulag Archipelago](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/31/opinion/australias-gulag-archipelago.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=F797BEA17EA621B182173642FD5226EC&gwt=pay&assetType=opinion%5B/QUOTE%5D)** > > The conditions of refugee detention centers on remote islands are a national disgrace. But can shame force reform? Australia doesnt have asylum seekers they have financial terrorists ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/17 "2016-10-26T03:27:45Z")
[QUOTE=powerabout;191762]Australia doesnt have asylum seekers they have financial terrorists[/QUOTE] Shaming may help to get Owners to pay up and act responsibly: [http://splash247.com/vallianz-responds-to-splash-reports-promises-to-pay-crew/](http://splash247.com/vallianz-responds-to-splash-reports-promises-to-pay-crew/) ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/18 "2016-11-13T05:20:40Z")
Would getting more women into high position in Shipping help to “soften” the rough edges, like abandonment of crew?: [https://shipping-2030.com/2016/11/09/lena-gothberg-a-force-for-sea-change/](https://shipping-2030.com/2016/11/09/lena-gothberg-a-force-for-sea-change/) ---
**Author:** ![Emrobu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/emrobu/32/6696_2.png) [@Emrobu](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Emrobu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 8:55am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/19 "2016-11-13T08:55:54Z")
[QUOTE=ombugge;192421]Would getting more women into high position in Shipping help to “soften” the rough edges, like abandonment of crew?: [https://shipping-2030.com/2016/11/09/lena-gothberg-a-force-for-sea-change/[/QUOTE]](https://shipping-2030.com/2016/11/09/lena-gothberg-a-force-for-sea-change/%5B/QUOTE%5D) Does having many women in high position in the fashion industry make it safer for garment workers? ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602/20 "2016-11-13T13:17:04Z")
[QUOTE=Emrobu;192431]Does having many women in high position in the fashion industry make it safer for garment workers?[/QUOTE] Are there many women in high position in the fashion industry? [Next page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/abandoned-without-food-or-pay-happens-all-the-time/16602.md?page=2)