# A new and different 1600-3rd mate question **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [October 9, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300 "2011-10-09T17:10:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OICUR12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a183cd/32.png) [@OICUR12](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/OICUR12)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/1 "2011-10-09T17:10:43Z")
Does master on towing vessels over 200gt count towards sitting for 3rd mate using the 1600-3rd mate loophole? After all they are no longer “uninspected” towing vessels. Seems to reason that it should count as inspected vessel time. didnt see anything in the cfr about towing vessel time. just the 200gt requirement. I want to apply to sit for test but don’t want to waste time. anybody? Bueller? anybody? ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/2 "2011-10-09T18:09:30Z")
Any vessel over 200grt counts towards a 3m, though technically to get an oceans license all your time needs to be on oceans. There is no mention of it needing to be an “inspected” vessel. ---
**Author:** ![Cal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@Cal](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Cal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/3 "2011-10-10T18:48:20Z")
Time in a vessel over 200 GRT counts, doesn’t have to be in a licensed capacity and has nothing ti do with a crossover exam. Maybe its a shorter exam? My AB time secured my Third Mate, albeit with a tonnage restriction. ---
**Author:** ![orlandocorral](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/5daacb/32.png) [@orlandocorral](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/orlandocorral)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/4 "2011-10-11T01:08:22Z")
There is no mention of it needing to be an “inspected” vessel ![](http://www.aasseenontv.com/jh.jpg) ![](http://www.aasseenontv.com/az.jpg) ![](http://www.aasseenontv.com/ht.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![cappy208](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@cappy208](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/cappy208)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/5 "2011-10-11T03:09:34Z")
[QUOTE=OICUR12;56181]Does master on towing vessels over 200gt count towards sitting for 3rd mate using the 1600-3rd mate loophole? [/QUOTE] yes [QUOTE=OICUR12;56181] After all they are no longer “uninspected” towing vessels. [/QUOTE] No they’re not… YET. at least as far as meeting license qualifications is concerned. [QUOTE=OICUR12;56181] Seems to reason that it should count as inspected vessel time. didnt see anything in the cfr about towing vessel time. just the 200gt requirement. [/QUOTE] I think you’re confusing the ‘minimum tonnage requirement’ with some inspection misconception. The regs state that if you spend enough time on vessels OVER 1600 ton you get an unlimited 3rds. with time over 200 (but under 1600) you get a tonnage limitation. ---
**Author:** ![OICUR12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a183cd/32.png) [@OICUR12](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/OICUR12)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 8:11am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/6 "2011-10-15T08:11:26Z")
§ 10.410 46 CFR Ch. I (10–1–05 Edition) © While holding a license as master of ocean or near coastal steam or motor vessels of not more than 1,600 gross tons, one year of service as master on vessels of over 200 gross tons operating on ocean or near coastal waters will qualify the applicant for a license as third mate of ocean or near coastal steam or motor vessels of any gross tons. just answered my own question. didn’t have time to read the reg until now. all my master 200gt and up time on inland waters and western rivers doesn’t count toward me sitting for 3rd mate. it doesn’t say anything about a tonnage limitation. i would fight that. thanks for chimin in fellas. one fella i seen on here not too long ago got his 3rd with no tonnage limitation. i would be requesting his evaluator. get my congressmen involved. rattle the cage in the house of infanite knowledge in WV. anyway kinda disappointing. my job just as tough if not tougher than anybody cruzin the gulf with the iron mike on. why shouldn’t inland and Wr time count? a big ass boat is a big ass boat no matter where you handle it at. whether it be 1200’ of tow through the Brazos flood gates or a 900’ light ship fighting a 35 mph cross wind on his way to the dock, or a captain holding his old school oil field supply boat right on the money for that crane operator in 6-8’ seas when those oil “company men” are jumpin up and down for their drilling equipment or fluids. in my ever so humble opinion any of the above should qualify any wheelman to be a glorified cabin boy that does chart corrections all day long and the hardest part of his day is maybe making a course change on the iron mike to ensure a minimum 2 nm cpa as per the captains standing watch orders. i have done the limited tonnage “3rd mate” thing. and if that was any indication of what is to come if i ever do get my time in, i am not too depressed about not being able to sit for my 3rd. I had twice the close quarters boat handling experience as the most senior captain within the company. he had horsepower to spare, a powerful bow thruster, and two assist tugs every dock we arrived or departed from. I pushed tows twice the size of our ATB with a quarter or less of the horse power and what the hell is a bow thruster? assit tug? Ha yeah right. different strokes… ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 9:27am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/7 "2011-10-15T09:27:40Z")
The current rules seem to be a holdover from the good old days when navigating oceans was harder than inland. Now with all the technology out there inland operating is actually harder but no one cares. ---
**Author:** ![Diesel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Diesel](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Diesel)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 12:19pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/8 "2011-10-15T12:19:26Z")
POlicy Letter 15-02 addresses the tonnage restriction. [QUOTE=OICUR12;56499]§ 10.410 46 CFR Ch. I (10–1–05 Edition) © While holding a license as master of ocean or near coastal steam or motor vessels of not more than 1,600 gross tons, one year of service as master on vessels of over 200 gross tons operating on ocean or near coastal waters will qualify the applicant for a license as third mate of ocean or near coastal steam or motor vessels of any gross tons. just answered my own question. didn’t have time to read the reg until now. all my master 200gt and up time on inland waters and western rivers doesn’t count toward me sitting for 3rd mate. it doesn’t say anything about a tonnage limitation. i would fight that. thanks for chimin in fellas. one fella i seen on here not too long ago got his 3rd with no tonnage limitation. i would be requesting his evaluator. get my congressmen involved. rattle the cage in the house of infanite knowledge in WV. anyway kinda disappointing. my job just as tough if not tougher than anybody cruzin the gulf with the iron mike on. why shouldn’t inland and Wr time count? a big ass boat is a big ass boat no matter where you handle it at. whether it be 1200’ of tow through the Brazos flood gates or a 900’ light ship fighting a 35 mph cross wind on his way to the dock, or a captain holding his old school oil field supply boat right on the money for that crane operator in 6-8’ seas when those oil “company men” are jumpin up and down for their drilling equipment or fluids. in my ever so humble opinion any of the above should qualify any wheelman to be a glorified cabin boy that does chart corrections all day long and the hardest part of his day is maybe making a course change on the iron mike to ensure a minimum 2 nm cpa as per the captains standing watch orders. i have done the limited tonnage “3rd mate” thing. and if that was any indication of what is to come if i ever do get my time in, i am not too depressed about not being able to sit for my 3rd. I had twice the close quarters boat handling experience as the most senior captain within the company. he had horsepower to spare, a powerful bow thruster, and two assist tugs every dock we arrived or departed from. I pushed tows twice the size of our ATB with a quarter or less of the horse power and what the hell is a bow thruster? assit tug? Ha yeah right. different strokes…[/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/9 "2011-10-15T15:34:33Z")
> [@"Diesel"](#): > > POlicy Letter 15-02 addresses the tonnage restriction. So does 46 CFR 11.402… In short, yes, there would have been a tonnage restriction. ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/10 "2011-10-16T19:59:43Z")
[QUOTE=OICUR12;56499] in my ever so humble opinion any of the above should qualify any wheelman to be a glorified cabin boy that does chart corrections all day long and the hardest part of his day is maybe making a course change on the iron mike to ensure a minimum 2 nm cpa as per the captains standing watch orders.[/QUOTE] There is an element of truth to what you say. It is possible sail deep-sea, especially at the junior officer level without having much seamanship skills. The mates I get with some towing experience are head and shoulders above the mates with the same amount of deep-sea experience only. There are also lots of mariners sailing deep-sea that couldn’t cut it on the tugs. Having said that it is also likely that a tug mate might find switching from running 6 kts on an inland river to the wheelhouse of a container ship transiting Singapore Straits in heavy traffic at 24 kts to be a challenge. Or say a big RO/RO ship is in Dubai with Bahrain / Doha / Damman / Kuwait schedule for the next week, but instead of running back to the States as planned the schedule is to make a run to Singapore then Australia, there are no previous voyage plans and no charts on board and the order for the first batch of charts and pubs (I’ve got no ECDIS) has to be in within the next 48 hours. The midwatch has to be stood the gps has to reprogrammed the mate needs help on deck etc. How many harbor tug captains would even know where to start in this case? My point is the idea that one is easy the other is difficult is not always correct. Its apples and oranges. K.C. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/11 "2011-10-16T21:42:53Z")
KC - that is true but that is why ships have three mates. The 3m is a learning position. A new academy grad isn’t going to be any better at that than a tug boater. Hell, it is possible to be an unlimited master and not be good at that if all you ever did was work on drill ships in the gulf of mexico. Different sectors of the shipping industry are like different sectors of the towing industry, apples and oranges. All the license means is that you can pass a test and probably also navigate a vessel. Everything else needs to be learned on the job. ---
**Author:** ![PR-9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@PR-9](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/PR-9)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/12 "2011-10-17T05:04:37Z")
> [@"Capt. Schmitt"](#): > > KC - that is true but that is why ships have three mates. The 3m is a learning position. A new academy grad isn’t going to be any better at that than a tug boater. Hell, it is possible to be an unlimited master and not be good at that if all you ever did was work on drill ships in the gulf of mexico. Different sectors of the shipping industry are like different sectors of the towing industry, apples and oranges. All the license means is that you can pass a test and probably also navigate a vessel. Everything else needs to be learned on the job. Well said! ---
**Author:** ![Diesel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Diesel](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Diesel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/13 "2011-10-17T16:53:04Z")
[quote=kennebec captain;56549] , there are no previous voyage plans and no charts on board and the order for the first batch of charts and pubs (i’ve got no ecdis) has to be in within the next 48 hours. The midwatch has to be stood the gps has to reprogrammed the mate needs help on deck etc. How many harbor tug captains would even know where to start in this case? K.c.[/quote] fed-ex ??? ---
**Author:** ![Kennebec\_Captain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/kennebec_captain/32/13_2.png) [@Kennebec\_Captain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Kennebec_Captain)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/a-new-and-different-1600-3rd-mate-question/6300/14 "2011-10-17T19:06:39Z")
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;56552]KC - that is true but that is why ships have three mates. The 3m is a learning position…[/QUOTE] In the academy system cadet is the learning position. When you join a ship as third mate you have to hit the ground running. If you’re lucky you’ll have a easy first few days to get your bearings if not it’s sink or swim. K.C.