# 83 Years ago today **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [December 7, 2024, 3:05pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335 "2024-12-07T15:05:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DavidMT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/278dde/32.png) [@DavidMT](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/DavidMT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2024, 3:05pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/1 "2024-12-07T15:05:41Z")
7DEC1941, A Day That Will Live in Infamy On this day in 1941 the Empire of Japan attacked the Untied States Among those killed at Pearl Harbor, Hickam Field, Schofield Barracks, Various places around Oahu, Guam and The PI, the merchant ship, The S.S. Cynthia Olson, traveling from Tacoma WA to Hawaii was sunk by a Japanese submarine. The 33 crew members and 2 army personal managed to survive the sinking. The following day (December 8), the lifeboats were spotted by another Japanese submarine I-19, who provided them with some food and other supplies. It was the last time anyone saw them. Whether ally, or foe. Slain in battle, or no. Remember, even though, some lay, where no Poppies grow. ---
**Author:** ![ShooterMcGavin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/shootermcgavin/32/1756_2.png) [@ShooterMcGavin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ShooterMcGavin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 2:18pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/2 "2024-12-08T14:18:17Z")
Kinda strange that on December 7, 1951 the tenth anniversary of the attack was back page news in virtually all major papers. They say the release of Tora Tora Tora in 1970 is what really brought the importance of the attack back into frame for many Americans born during/after that time. Wild and sad to remember how many veterans of that war (some who were present for the attack on Pearl) were still working/not quite at retirement age in my youth and to know how few are left today. ---
**Author:** ![DavidMT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/278dde/32.png) [@DavidMT](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/DavidMT)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/3 "2024-12-08T15:36:04Z")
My dad was there that day ---
**Author:** ![244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a3d4f5/32.png) [@244](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/244)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/4 "2024-12-08T21:15:11Z")
Respect to your Dad ---
**Author:** ![244](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/a3d4f5/32.png) [@244](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/244)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 9:38pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/5 "2024-12-08T21:38:05Z")
My Dad was a junior rate during WW2 As a Sick bay attendant on a minesweeper was the only medical hand on board. Had to deal with the aftermath of a Blue on Blue incident where a RN destroyer got badly beaten up by an RAF Bomber. Tragic. Never spoke about it until his latter years. ---
**Author:** ![freighterman1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/freighterman1/32/11176_2.png) [@freighterman1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/freighterman1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/6 "2024-12-08T22:42:24Z")
Be thankful for the heroes America produced back then. Be thankful too for the president we had back then. Roosevelt’s instinct was always to unify Americans, all of them, no matter what state they came from or what party they belonged to. Be thankful that he looked at freedom and democracy as something worth fighting for, and national unity, so easy dissolved by demagogues, made victory possible. The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor not to conquer territory but to shock Americans into acquiescing into their territorial expansion, by sinking the Pacific Fleet. Another president could have done the easy thing and let Japan have its way. Roosevelt didn’t. Roosevelt could have let Britain and Europe down, too. We would never get back all the money we invested in Britain, Russia, and the rest. What did Europe matter to us? Why support them? Yet America and Roosevelt did. ---
**Author:** ![Sand\_Pebble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Sand\_Pebble](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Sand_Pebble)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2024, 11:50pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/7 "2024-12-08T23:50:01Z")
> [@freighterman1](#): > > Roosevelt’s instinct was always to unify Americans, all of them, no matter what state they came from or what party they belonged to. Roosevelt did many things good. One of them was to only supply support to the UK & not acting as a dictator by hitting Germany or Japan on his own without Congress. It was our planes, guns & bombs but the Brits who operated them. And in the end, it was Germany who was the aggressor who declared war on us, the stupid bastards. Why was it important for Roosevelt to let the enemy come to him instead of him hitting Germany without Congressional consent? Many people at the time still remembered the horrors of WW1 & didn’t want a WW2. The draft proposal only passed congress by 1 signal vote. But by the US being the defenders of our land with our killed sailors the whole nationed stepped up. Well played by Roosevelt. Although the draft only passed by 1 vote in '40, the declaration of war vote was 82-0 in the Senate & 388-1 in the house in '42. Now that was a leader. > **[Selective Training and Service Act of 1940](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Training_and_Service_Act_of_1940)** > > The Selective Training and Service Act of 1940, also known as the Burke–Wadsworth Act, Pub. L. 76–783, 54 Stat. 885, enacted September 16, 1940, was the first peacetime conscription in United States history. This Selective Service Act required that men who had reached their 21st birthday but had not yet reached their 36th birthday register with local draft boards. Later, when the U.S. entered World War II, all men from their 18th birthday until the day before their 45th birthday were made subj Th... ---
**Author:** ![ShooterMcGavin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/shootermcgavin/32/1756_2.png) [@ShooterMcGavin](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ShooterMcGavin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2024, 1:06am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/8 "2024-12-09T01:06:22Z")
> [@Sand\_Pebble](#): > > it was Germany who was the aggressor who declared war on us, the stupid bastards. When Japan hit Pearl it was easy to get the American public onboard with striking back with a vengeance. FDR and his cabinet desperately wanted to get in on the fighting in Europe but feared the public backlash from dragging us into a war that many felt was Europe’s problem. In the days after Pearl Harbor they were racking their brains out trying to think of a way to get more involved over there without upsetting the _America First, no to war in Europe_ crowd… then Hitler took care of that problem for them. Also interesting to note that, despite the surrenders of Germany and Japan in May and August 1945, hostilities were not officially declared over until December 31, 1946 which is why anyone who served between 12/7/41 and 12/31/46 is considered a veteran of WW2. The states of war against Germany and Japan were not lifted until 1951 and 1952, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![seasmaster](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/seasmaster/32/3160_2.png) [@seasmaster](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/seasmaster)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2024, 10:34pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/9 "2024-12-13T22:34:55Z")
Of course, no one remembers the two US destroyers were torpedoed by Germany prior to 07Dec41, and a third was attacked, but not hit. . . It was know as “the short-of-war” period. US destroyers escorting convoys across the LANT and engaging in warfare before a declaration of war. I’m not sure if FDR has justifiably been elevated to sainthood. . . He did the same shit that the most recent POTUS’s did. ---
**Author:** ![freighterman1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/freighterman1/32/11176_2.png) [@freighterman1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/freighterman1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 12:25am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/10 "2024-12-14T00:25:45Z")
> [@seasmaster](#): > > He did the same shit that the most recent POTUS’s did. But he was the first president that did it. As in, the leader… The American Lend Lease program could be argued to have won the war in Europe, but not just because of the help to Britain. It’s common wisdom nowadays that the Soviet’s war on the Eastern Front crippled the Wehrmacht and made it much easier for the other Allies to invade Europe. The Russians would, of course, say it was they who struck the decisive blow to destroy the Nazis. However, after the war was over Stalin admitted to people like Khrushchev that without the American lend-lease effort to the Soviets the Soviets could never have defeated the Nazis. So, the American lend-lease program was at least equally responsible for the defeat of the Wehrmacht in Russia. The amazing thing about lend-lease is that Roosevelt and a number of senators got the rest of the government, and the mass of the public, to agree to send all that armament to Russia and Britain for nearly free, even knowing it would anger Hitler. Especially since we knew at the time, though Truman wanted it kept quiet after the war, that there were at least a dozen Nazi sympathizers in Congress. Until recently I didn’t know there was a thing called ‘reverse lend-lease’. All those air bases the USA used in Britain? We paid leases on many of them for the duration. ---
**Author:** ![Hogsnort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@Hogsnort](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hogsnort)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 2:27am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/11 "2024-12-14T02:27:00Z")
Britain paid the USA $83 million and Canada $23.6 million on the 6th of December 2006. That was the final installment of Britain’s wartime debt. I don’t think you got anything out of Uncle Joe or any of his successors. ---
**Author:** ![ChaplainDarrell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/chaplaindarrell/32/41200_2.png) [@ChaplainDarrell](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ChaplainDarrell)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 1:49pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/12 "2024-12-14T13:49:15Z")
I served for over two years on a Wind-Class icebreaker. She was built in 1943, then given to Russian under the Lend-Lease program. After the war, she was left sitting for the US reclaim, “according to legend”. Also, she was not in the best of shape. In the motor rooms, there were bakelite placards over each gauge and switch, in English. But you could turn the over and the word were in Cyrillic. Some of the crew would reverse the plaques to mess with the new guys that reported onboard. ---
**Author:** ![tengineer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@tengineer1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tengineer1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/13 "2024-12-14T14:36:21Z")
My father sailed on the Eastwind right after WW II. After his time in the US Maritime Service he thought the USCG was a better option as he would be in the US more often, wrong. After that he decided to work at a Loran station to be closer to home and they promptly sent him to a Loran station in Labrador. I inherited some of his luck. ---
**Author:** ![ocnslr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/54ee81/32.png) [@ocnslr](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ocnslr)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 4:03pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/14 "2024-12-14T16:03:56Z")
My father, Raymond, was the third of four brothers. He and his one-year-older brother, Michael, enlisted in the New York Army National Guard, Engineers, in Sept 1940, expecting to do a couple of years. Of course, they ended up in the Pacific for the entire war. The eldest brother, John, joined the USN and served on the Bonhomme Richard. The youngest brother, Neal, served in Korea. This ‘photo’ was assembled many years ago by their mother, and she wrote “My four sons” on it. From left to right, Raymond, Michael, John, Neal. All good Irish lads. ![The Lads](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/gcaptain_maritime_forum/original/3X/e/4/e4446c4d7979ee62bb129659bff9e720d68b8686.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/15 "2024-12-14T16:18:58Z")
I’ve always been told that Finland is the only country that ever repaid its war debt. ---
**Author:** ![Hogsnort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba8739/32.png) [@Hogsnort](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Hogsnort)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/16 "2024-12-14T17:31:54Z")
After I retired I found that living on 50 acres in a rural area I was growing more insular by the day. My wife would go off and play bridge. A game that I could play badly but it never interested me, if I played cards it was for enjoyment. Then I found this organisation: [https://worldu3a.org/resources/u3a-worldwide.htm](https://worldu3a.org/resources/u3a-worldwide.htm) I joined the local branch with a general meeting once a month where we have a guest speaker, some of whom have international reputations. The study groups that I belong to are: Mathematical Diversions, Critical Thinking, Economics and World History. It keeps my ancient lump of grey matter up and running and is responsible for my awareness that Britain also paid off the debt. ---
**Author:** ![ombugge](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/ombugge/32/11217_2.png) [@ombugge](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/ombugge)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/17 "2024-12-14T21:12:13Z")
Don’t know which study group this fellow belongs to (if any) He appears to be well informed and sure of his facts: > **[Why cant dems understand NATO is not beneficial to US? The so called European...](https://www.quora.com/Why-cant-dems-understand-NATO-is-not-beneficial-to-US-The-so-called-European-NATO-countries-pay-nothing-toward-NATO-leaving-most-expenses-to-American-taxpayers-Also-some-behave-very-hostile-toward-Russia-confident/answer/Mike-Church-33?ch=10&oid=1477743828808889&share=d26fe73c&srid=3VXDNu&target_type=answer)** > > Answer (1 of 116): So if you are criticizing the “Dems”, I can only assume you are of the opposition but let me tell you that you are asking out of extreme ignorance. Nobody pays NATO. NATO is not an actual thing that exists. It is an alliance of... PS\> The comments below may be as informative as the posted opinion. ---
**Author:** ![freighterman1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/freighterman1/32/11176_2.png) [@freighterman1](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/freighterman1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2024, 2:40pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/83-years-ago-today/71335/18 "2024-12-15T14:40:46Z")
> [@Hogsnort](#): > > Britain paid the USA $83 million and Canada $23.6 million on the 6th of December 2006. That was the final installment of Britain’s wartime debt. > I don’t think you got anything out of Uncle Joe or any of his successors. I did a little research on this and was surprised to find that SU/Russia did pay off all or part of its debt by 2006 also.