# 1600 master to 2m unlimited **URL:** \ **Category:** Professional Mariner Forum\ **Created:** [May 17, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477 "2024-05-17T19:25:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![New3M](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/new3m/32/394_2.png) [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/43 "2024-05-25T00:50:23Z")
It was 10 years ago. At least. When I got my letter, it had two full courses of exams - CM and the 1600T. I called, and the lady on the phone said “oh I guess you just want the one test.” I took the one test. I don’t know if it was supposed to be different back then, but I’m glad it’s different now. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/44 "2024-05-25T00:55:00Z")
> [@New3M](#): > > I don’t know if it was supposed to be different back then It was wrong back then too. I’m pretty sure the Master Unlimited exam has always been acceptable in place of the Master 1,600 exam. ---
**Author:** ![New3M](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/new3m/32/394_2.png) [@New3M](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/New3M)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/45 "2024-05-25T00:55:56Z")
Yea. 🤷‍♂️ At least the crossover test was 80% questions I had seen while taking the CM test. Took me about 10 minutes 😂 ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/46 "2024-05-25T01:50:58Z")
Fine. Just add the Master 500/1600/Master Inland topics to the Mate 500/1600/Third Mate exam. It wouldn’t be a significant amount of extra material, or much extra burden on exam takers. The point is: Given NMC’s and REC’s limited budget, staff, and lack of ability to accurately complete their work within a reasonable amount of time, we need to find ways to reduce the application volume and their workload to improve efficiency and reduce delays. Given the amount of expensive and time consuming USCG and company training and testing demands on mariners we need to find ways to reduce that, and reduce expensive delays waiting for documents. If we made this one combined exam change, mariners would only need to test once to be able to upgrade with just seatime without having to take repetitive substantially similar exams over and over again. Next, NMC should have a policy of automatically issuing every endorsement that an applicant qualifies for, whether or not, the applicant has asked for it. This would also eliminate a plethora of future applications for additional endorsements. It would increase the pool of mariners that have the qualifications sought by employers. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/47 "2024-05-25T03:22:01Z")
> [@tugsailor](#): > > Just add the Master 500/1600/Master Inland topics to the Mate 500/1600/Third Mate exam. At that point why not make them all just take one big Mate/ Master Unlimited exam and get it out of the way before they’re ever sail on a license? 🙄 No, they should have to pass new exams to get their master license. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 3:22am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/48 "2024-05-25T03:22:47Z")
> [@tugsailor](#): > > A Second Mate can take a simple, easy, crossover exam for Master 1600. That allowance should be ended. ---
**Author:** ![Sailor51](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sailor51](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Sailor51)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 3:41am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/49 "2024-05-25T03:41:19Z")
This whole thread is so stupid. Reading about 200 ton masters being gifted a 3m/2m unlimited licenses is comical. Lol. Just leave the rules the same. If you want an unlimited licenses there should be no shortcut just follow the rules. If you are complaining, it’s because you are lazy. There’s limited tonnage guys that have made the switch to unlimited. If you’re motivated and want to make it happen you can figure it out. These tests and the process isn’t too difficult to figure out. Just stop complaining and just get it done. Making things easier for people is not what this industry should be doing. They already reduced the sea-time for ABs. Keep this crap up and next thing you know people are just going to be handed their endorsements and licenses by simply sending in their application fee. ---
**Author:** ![BeerCaptain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@BeerCaptain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BeerCaptain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 4:07am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/50 "2024-05-25T04:07:47Z")
> [@Capt\_Phoenix](#): > > That allowance should be ended. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 4:52am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/51 "2024-05-25T04:52:59Z")
1. It’s unfair to limited tonnage licenses for no good reason. Normally a 1,600 ton Master requires a minimum of two years as OICEW but for some reason (mostly) academy grads with significantly less overall sea time or practical experience somehow qualify with half that? 2. A typical 2M application is by an academy grad with barely enough experience to be a competent solo watch stander. They are by no means qualified to be master of anything bigger than a head boat. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 5:05am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/52 "2024-05-25T05:05:22Z")
No one has suggested that 200 ton Masters should have an upgrade path to 3rd Mate. That is ridiculous. What has been suggested is that there should be path from Master 1600 to 2nd or 3rd Mate. Similar to the existing upgrade path from 2nd Mate to Master 1600. The Master 1600 Oceans exam is a bit more difficult than the 3rd/2nd Mate exam. The STCW requirements for Master II/2 3000 tons are significantly more than for 2nd or 3rd Mate. As someone who has been a Master 1600 for a long time, and frequently has Mates who hold 2nd or 3rd Mate Unlimited, I’m in a pretty good position to compare the relative skills and ability. Anyone who thinks that a 3rd Mate Unlimited is better qualified than a Master 1600 Oceans with command experience is clueless and just talking out his ass. ---
**Author:** ![BeerCaptain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@BeerCaptain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BeerCaptain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 5:05am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/53 "2024-05-25T05:05:24Z")
> [@Capt\_Phoenix](#): > > They are by no means qualified to be master of anything bigger than a head boat. That’s kinda up to the owner of the vessel. If you hire a fresh 2M who just got his 1600 then that’s on you. I don’t think there’s a better way to change it though. If you test for CM you automatically get it, does another year as 2M make you qualified enough? It’s all about the resume not the license. ---
**Author:** ![tugsailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@tugsailor](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/tugsailor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 5:39am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/54 "2024-05-25T05:39:05Z")
You’re right that its about the experience and ability (resumes tend to be grossly inflated), not the license. The license requirements often do not comport with reality. @Capt_Phoenix is right that the vast majority of 2nd Mates are not even remotely qualified to be Master 1600 after taking a Mickey Mouse crossover exam. I could say the same thing about Mates 1600 that upgraded to Master 1600 with only one year of seatime. The vast majority of them are not ready to be Masters either. You are right that it’s the owner’s final decision who he judges to be qualified to run his vessel. They owners, or their experience managers, are in the best position to determine who is qualified. That’s the way it was 150 years ago when America was great. But that’s not the modern world that we live in. Congress and the USCG do the regulating. There is room for improvement. We should all want a more realistic and practical licensing system that the USCG can effectively administrate with its limited resources. My interest in this is mostly academic. I am in the twilight of my career, if not my life. My next upgrade will be to Armchair Sailor Extraordinaire. And yes, I’ve already paid the fees and passed the exam. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 9:44am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/55 "2024-05-25T09:44:16Z")
> [@BeerCaptain](#): > > That’s kinda up to the owner of the vessel Then what’s the point of license requirements at all? Why not just let anyone who wants to take the exams for Master Unlimited and leave it up to the companies to decide who’s qualified. > [@BeerCaptain](#): > > I don’t think there’s a better way to change it though. I do. Require anyone wanting to be master 1,600 to have at least two years as OICNW. Three years would be better, so it’s inline with STCW requirements, but two years is a start. > [@BeerCaptain](#): > > does another year as 2M make you qualified enough? It makes one more than twice as qualified as they were after that first year. ---
**Author:** ![BeerCaptain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@BeerCaptain](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/BeerCaptain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 10:25am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/56 "2024-05-25T10:25:26Z")
> [@Capt\_Phoenix](#): > > Then what’s the point of license requirements at all? Why not just let anyone who wants to take the exams for Master Unlimited and leave it up to the companies to decide who’s qualified. You know that’s not the same as the point I was making. Anyone who looks at a resume and sees the experience is lacking is taking a risk by hiring them. It’s the same as a major shipping company hiring a Master who only has 6-8 months experience sailing CM. > [@Capt\_Phoenix](#): > > It makes one more than twice as qualified as they were after that first year. That doesn’t answer the question, you just did some easy math. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_Phoenix](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.gcaptain.com/capt_phoenix/32/281_2.png) [@Capt\_Phoenix](https://forum.gcaptain.com/u/Capt_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2024, 11:06am UTC](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477/57 "2024-05-25T11:06:48Z")
> [@BeerCaptain](#): > > Anyone who looks at a resume and sees the experience is lacking is taking a risk by hiring them. Yes, but you missed **my** point. The license minimums are there for a reason. You know some shitty cut rate company will be in a bind and run a wet ink “master” who is barely competent to stand a mate watch. In fact, that won’t be an isolated occurrence. The good companies will vet, the licenses are there to protect against the shitty companies. [Previous page](https://forum.gcaptain.com/t/1600-master-to-2m-unlimited/69477.md?page=2)