Ugh I need an Advil
[QUOTE=tugsailor;139581]Also, many countries provide a virtually free college education to academically qualified students. Canada and Norway are a couple that come to mind. Norway’s investment in top maritime schools such as Aalesund University College seems to be working out quite well for them.[/QUOTE]
Yes, they are just as “free” as socialized medicine.
What you call free is high taxes on everything from income to alcohol to tobacco to fuel. The wage earners and consumers in Norway, specifically, pay for this free education and those who benefit from it return the favor when they start working. It is an established system also common in Denmark and Sweden as well.
The personal income tax rate in Norway for the last 19 years averaged 45.6%!
Have you even been to Norway?
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[QUOTE=tugsailor;139565]The sort of reforms that I would like to see Congress institute at KP would retain high academic standards for the four year college degree program (if there is going to be one), but also require applicants to show a significant prior connection to the sea. Applicants should be required to show that they know something about what they are getting into, and that they are likely to actually make a career of going to sea.
Just my opinion, but I think that regiments, if any, should be optional at all maritime academies. Similarly, service obligations, if any, should also be optional. That is another reform that I would like to see Congress enact.
Several of my friends and one relative who went to KP are nice guys. Years ago, I had a few KP cadets that were good kids. I have never understood why so many mariners don’t like KP’ers, but I’m beginning to get the drift.
I’m glad to see that someone else on this thread is taking the heat off ccaptain.[/QUOTE]
Sure, we’ll get rid of regiments as soon as we no longer need chain of command on ships.
Now that was fun!!! What is it that all the Kings Point grads like to put in the bars bathrooms??? Something like KPS…
[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;139573]I think it would be very difficult to get all the States to chip in to a region if they see no particular advantage to do so. At the same time not all the State schools have those 3 levels of fees you mention. But this is an interesting idea and perhaps worth exploring further. I have also listened to people suggesting combining KP with the Coast Guard Academy facilities. I am not sure how the turf battle between the 2 governing agencies would play out.[/QUOTE]
They are under the same Dept., DHS. Both USCG and USMMA are DOT, not DOD.
As Joan Jett just posted, they will never merge. USCG admission procedures are different than all other service academies. They can pick whomever they choose; there is no congressional nomination. I’m not even sure if they are required to set aside a certain # of slots for each state for each new class as the other academies do.
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[QUOTE=Signal Red;139590]Now that was fun!!! What is it that all the Kings Point grads like to put in the bars bathrooms??? Something like KPS…[/QUOTE]
Nope…
You can shake it with your hands.
You can beat it on the wall.
But when you put it in your pants the last drops will fall.
At least that’s what I learned from Jett.
So you don’t believe in universal health care? Come to think of it why not have taxpayer funded Higher Education. Our K-12 is already socialized.
How about that. So the best way to a flourishing civilization is to provide for a process by which all members of society support the advancement of its most capable members. Thus providing necessary doctors, engineers, scientists…and even Mariners.
[QUOTE=Mikey;139569]How the hell am I supposed to moderate this shit? I mean seriously???[/QUOTE]
Mikey,
We pay you good money for your services!
No whining!
And Norway with its huge income tax manages to have ~3% unemployment and an average salary of $6,900 (USD)/month.
You got that email from him too about the Mandatory gCaptain Forum members fee? I thought it was a scam at first but now I’m all payed up. 
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;139592]So you don’t believe in universal health care? Come to think of it why not have taxpayer funded Higher Education. Our K-12 is already socialized.
How about that. So the best way to a flourishing civilization is to provide for a process by which all members of society support the advancement of its most capable members. Thus providing necessary doctors, engineers, scientists…and even Mariners.[/QUOTE]
If I wanted universal healthcare and waaaaay less paycheck in my pocket, I’ll move to a Nordic country.
But this is ‘merica.’ We are capitalists, not socialists. We are also do not a vastly racially heterogeneous nation of less than 40 million people with much less socioeconomic problems and huge gaps between the haves and have nots.
Just because it works there doesn’t mean it will here. I gladly pay my taxes here, but no way am I ponying up another 15-20% of my paycheck.
The earliest colonizers of Merica weren’t Capitalists. I’m not denying the power of the Market. Capitalism is what truly pushes out the full potential of an economy, but societal institutions such as Education and the Merchant Marine need subsidization. Or do you really want to loose your job to some one from Eastern Europe or the Philippines, and have all our vessels go FOC.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;139594]And Norway with its huge income tax manages to have ~3% unemployment and an average salary of $6,900 (USD)/month.[/QUOTE]
This country would give its left nut for 3% unemployment rate.
After all that income tax, GST. VAT, unsubsidized petrol, higher SS type payroll tax, I’ll bet that Kronor equivalent to $83k USD isn’t a whole lot better than USA average household income ($55-60k) after taxes…
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;139597]The earliest colonizers of Merica weren’t Capitalists. I’m not denying the power of the Market. Capitalism is what truly pushes out the full potential of an economy, but societal institutions such as Education and the Merchant Marine need subsidization. O
r do you really want to loose your job to some one from Eastern Europe or the Philippines, and have all our vessels go FOC.[/QUOTE]
We have, for the moment, Jones Act and MSP to keep me from worrying about that.
Besides, what’s your problem with Pork Adobo and Goulash.
That shit is good!
We are already losing jobs to FOC and Nordic subsea/construction vessels working the GOM and that has nothing to do with govt subsidies.
Exactly my point, even if they earn about the same as you earn in America after taxes, look at all the services you receive. I’ll definitely concede that we have much larger social and cultural issues to tackle which make Norway’s model unfeasible, but it’s still something to work towards.
We have had socialized education for over 200 years. A free K-12 education for everyone funded mostly off the backs of local property taxpayers. Its one of America’s oldest traditions.
A private college education now costs over $50,000 per year, but state colleges cost $15,000 or less. What’s the difference between free and 2/3rds below fair market value? Both are socialized education. Its just a question of how much.
Socialized medicine? We’ve had that for decades: Medicare (everyone over 65 — and many now living to 95). Medicaid (a federal welfare program administered by states under many other names). Rules that require hospitals to treat everyone needing urgent care regardless of their ability to pay — the cost passed on to us with higher medical care costs. We have the highest health care costs in the world.
Families living on welfare for three generation without paying a penny of taxes.
Walmart employing hundreds of thousands of workers at less than a living wage because taxpayers are subsidizing them with welfare programs.
Don’t go getting on too high a horse about how the US is not a socialist country.
[QUOTE=Johnny Canal;139596]waaaaay less paycheck in my pocket[/QUOTE]
?
What are you earning now? A 1st mate in Norway are left with 4900 usd a month after taxes in a 28:28 rotation. Cost of living is higher in Norway, but considering all of the benefits you receive and the employment protection I would say it’s a fair deal.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;139602]We have had socialized education for over 200 years. A free K-12 education for everyone funded mostly off the backs of local property taxpayers. Its one of America’s oldest traditions.
A private college education now costs over $50,000 per year, but state colleges cost $15,000 or less. What’s the difference between free and 2/3rds below fair market value? Both are socialized education. Its just a question of how much.
Socialized medicine? We’ve had that for decades: Medicare (everyone over 65 — and many now living to 95). Medicaid (a federal welfare program administered by states under many other names). Rules that require hospitals to treat everyone needing urgent care regardless of their ability to pay — the cost passed on to us with higher medical care costs. We have the highest health care costs in the world.
Families living on welfare for three generation without paying a penny of taxes.
Walmart employing hundreds of thousands of workers at less than a living wage because taxpayers are subsidizing them with welfare programs.
Don’t go getting on too high a horse about how the US is not a socialist country.[/QUOTE]
And taking more taxes out of our wages won’t change a damn bit of that. We will still be (by far) the most populous first world nation with the fattest, unhealthiest people with shitloads of people living off WIC, EBT, and Medicaid.
Norwegian healthcare is universal, it does not depend on your age or income level. Medicaid and Medicare have qualifying parameters; Hospitals must provide URGENT care. That leaves a lot of people not covered by those social programs. Apples and oranges…
The socialism that DOES exists here ( agreeing) does not hold a candle to systems such as NOR, DNK, SWE, etc, and it doesn’t make the USA socialist.
[QUOTE=Kraken;139604]?
What are you earning now? A 1st mate in Norway are left with 4900 usd a month after taxes in a 28:28 rotation. Cost of living is higher in Norway, but considering all of the benefits you receive and the employment protection I would say it’s a fair deal.[/QUOTE]
After taxes and health/dental insurance payment, about $8250 USD per month working 28/28.
Of course I will have to pay for my child’s university costs. But that’s OK. I’ll send her to my shit hole alma mater and invoice Tugsailor and CCaptain the bills.
[QUOTE=Kraken;139604]?
What are you earning now? A 1st mate in Norway are left with 4900 usd a month after taxes in a 28:28 rotation. Cost of living is higher in Norway, but considering all of the benefits you receive and the employment protection I would say it’s a fair deal.[/QUOTE]
You mean $4900 x 12 = $58,800 after taxes. That is surprisingly low.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;139611]You mean $4900 x 12 = $58,800 after taxes. That is surprisingly low.[/QUOTE]
I just checked the average pay of Deck Officer and it was 114000 usd a year in Norway.
I’m not sure if it’s I that’s payed low or if the average is wrong 
You got that email from him too about the Mandatory gCaptain Forum members fee? I thought it was a scam at first but now I’m all payed up.
Whoa whoa whoa. Who’s paying what now?? What email? What message?
This is news to me. Someone clarify.