What the hell happened to my Alma Mater?!?!


#1

This is not how a Commandant of Cadets should administer discipline to a cadet. It’s why having non-mariners running things at the SMA’s has always been a bad idea in my book. I’m seething mad and (mostly) at a loss for words over this.

It seems to be exploding fast in the TMA alum pages, so hopefully it’s taken care of quickly.


#2

Wow, nothing that instructor did in that video would help a cadet be a better bridge or engineering officer on merchant vessels. If anything, it shows the cadets how NOT to handle subordinates who are out of line. That kind of outburst isn’t tolerated in any industry now a days & shouldn’t be demonstrated to students. Too bad for that great institution & those cadets.


#3

Is this Indoc or the start of summer Sea term? Since the guy in the fatigues sends the cadet home at the end I am guessing he is a paid commander at the school. It also sounds like the cadet was accused of lying, which would be an honor code violation and should result in a Captains Mast.

I’m not excusing the behavior but public dressing downs like this were fairly common during indoc or cruise though it was usually the senior cadets in charge doing it and PT only applied during indoc. This would appear to be a military style or mindset where making an example of one bad actor and punishing the masses for the errors of the few is commonplace. On a vessel I stick to the praise publicly and punish privately principle. Some of the kids in charge of my SUNY indoc watched full metal jacket and tried to emulate Gunnery Sgt. Hartman if you can believe that. I had a hard time not laughing as they attempted to deliver lines from the movie, poorly.

In the end, I think I’ve learned more about leadership in my life by observing bad leaders and vowing to do the opposite. The instance recorded here will hopefully serve to do the same for those cadets standing around watching.


#4

Oh dear! That is certainly not the TAMUG that I know and love. Although, my first year there, there were a couple of people who had flunked out of one or other of the service academies that went in for that with us newbies. I think I ended up telling the guy to shut up and calm down (and to my surprise, he actually did) - of course, back in those days things were a bit more chill? Yeah, this is not the kind of crap I ever wanted to see at that wonderful place.


#5

I know you are right about such scenes teaching future good officers how not to act but I think it also show futures bad officers what they can get away with if they aren’t caught on video. I’ve worked with some fouled-mouth, hot headed captains & angry, tool-throwing engineers over the years & have survived just fine. But we should try to stomp that erratic behavior out whenever we can. A professional verbal warning, written warning & then written discipline report are so much more effective with bad apples compared to losing your temper & making a fool of yourself. That hot head in the video is an emotional wreck.


#6

I wouldn’t call it military style or mindset. it’s pseudo-military, a caricature of the military.


#7

I think what I was trying to say is it is certain people’s perception of what the military is supposed to be, ie my description of twenty year olds trying to sound like a grizzled old marine gunny. It is clown shoes behavior but it is unfortunately not uncommon with those who are insecure or ill prepared with their leadership style.


#8

Steel Beach on the TS Kennedy. She’s still tied up at Mass Maritime prepping for the A&M Cruise. As a Mass Grad I’m disappointed to see how this “LEADER” is dishing out punishment onboard our biggest classroom. We don’t know all the details behind the video but can all agree he needs some more brevity to make this public shaming more impactful and efficient. I don’t know this guy but would bet he has zero respect from that cadet and all those around watching.


#9

Pre-cruise apparently. Not indoc, and that’s no cadet doing the dressing down. That’s the Commandant of Cadets. Even if it were an honor violation, that belongs in front of a closed door administrative board (as they used to do), not a public dress down.


#10

That was obviously in Buzzards Bay (Railroad Lift Bridge in Background), is that actually a group of Texas cadets up in Mass before their own cruise using the Mass Ship?


#11

Wooowwww. That was the commandant?!? That is pretty messed up. Why was he in BDU’s? The commandant of cadets during my days was cool calm and collected. Not this shit. Hell of way to start the Sea term…


#12

At SUNY the commandant, was always in well maintained khakis or full dress uniform. None of the reg officers wore BDUs ever.


#13

Exactly. I don’t remember him even addressing cadets directly unless they were in major trouble and then it took place behind closed doors. The regimental commanders were the ‘attack dogs’ and even then I never saw them lose their shit on someone.


#14

Exactly, most of the time it was the uperclassmen’s job to police behavior, unless you were really in trouble.


#15

Exactly, way out of line for faculty (or student corps staff as well for that matter). That BS College Station mentality is toxic for turning out good mates and engineers. If there actually was an honor violation it should have gone before an administrative board (what we called when I was at TMA, a “504”) not a punitive and public hazing. What happened to “you push… I push too” as a rule?


#16

A certain old crumudgeon can say what he wants about Catie Hanft, but I never saw her speak to anyone like that, ever. This guy should be looking for a new job after this stunt.


#17

What makes a grown man feel the need to yell at kids? It’s a question I’ve pondered since my first day at Schuyler.

Yesterday Fort Schuyler lost the hardest screw ever to turn in da bronx, Mate Jim McCoy… and the schuyler alumni pages are on fire with stories, grief and words of sadness.

Kids need disciple, kids respect it too if only in hindsight. McCoy was a good, hard tough disciplinarian… and I know because I pushed him more than most (possibly more than anyone) but he never lost his sh!t like this… not once… and that’s a good thing.

Thats why we respect him today even though many of us cursed every the mention of his name while we were cadets… he was hard as a nail but always professional!

This guy is a clown and there where many more who worked at Schuyler (some still work there today!) and ALL the other academies (I can say there are plenty in Annapolis and West Point too) who I’ll never respect.

Kids need discipline but nobody needs this BS.


#18

I’ve seen video worse than this emerge from Schuyler in recent years. I’ve seen it from most of the other academies too. This is just the first one in a long time that’s been made public… most of the videos gCaptain has recieved come with a note asking us to keep it private.


#19

To this day I can’t tie a bowline without the bitter end being inside the eye. That and the winter rowing in leaking monamoies will be with me forever because of that man.


#20

All that proves is you’re a better man than I was gunga-din. :wink: