What are the economic benefits of an expanded US-Flag?


#21

[QUOTE=z-drive;128539]What about Canada??? Quite a bit of the crude they produce offshore moves on canadian-bottom’d shuttle tankers (JJ Ugland), and some even comes down to the US of A on Canadian bottoms. Big deal they’re foreign built, you can do that here obviously aka containerships, ro/ro’s and all kinds of other re-flagged nonsense.

Highly doubt a Canadian Mariner makes less then an American.[/QUOTE]

Canada has no restrictions on the use of foreign built vessels for either the coastwise trade or foreign trade.

Seaspan built new tugs in China a few years ago. Secunda Canada bought a few more OSVs in Norway last year. Foreign flag OSVs are allowed to operate in Canada, Maersk has a significant presence in the Canadian oil patch. As far as I know, its been quite awhile since any significant number of US vessels have worked in the Canadian oil patch. However, foreign flag vessels must be Canadian crewed within a pretty short period of time. Drill ships can get waivers to use non-Canadian skilled workers (drilling crew), but my understanding is that the waivers are very difficult to get for foreign mariners.

Canadian mariners make more money than US mariners. Canadian licensing standards are very similar to the UK. Its much easier for Canadians to work on foreign flag vessels in the North Sea, Australia, and elsewhere. Its very common for Canadian mariners to sail foreign flag.

In a great many areas, we Americans could learn a lot from Canada.


#22

[QUOTE=Steamer;128531]MARAD has become nothing more than a mechanism to transfer American taxes from a shrinking number of taxpayers to farmers, FoC fleet owners, foreign corporations and those who finance and support them.[/QUOTE]

Steamer my friend…how could you forget MarAd also pumps blood to keep its own bucket of slithering KP leeches happily gorged and bloated?

I’m eating slugs tonight!


#23

[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;128540]Aren’t all those Irving tubs Filipino through-and-through? That was my understanding anyway. It always bothered me that our own neighbors are bringing billions of dollars a year of petroleum product into our own backyards on ships that are built in Asia, crewed by Filipinos, and registered in the Marshall Islands. At least they’re owned by our neighbors but that doesn’t do anybody a whole lot of good, does it? Of course in a perfect world I’d like to see all that product come down to New England from St. John in American bottoms but since its Canadian product at least it wouldn’t bother me if they were Canadian bottoms.[/QUOTE]

No, I’m referring to the Canadian Flag Ugland ships… rugged north atlantic spec’d shuttle tankers, DP, bow loaders, rugged things that look like normal tankers until you get near one and comprehend the spec they’re built to, in my opinion at least. The entire fleet isn’t canadian flagged but mostly is. They run a lot of oil placentia, see them in pt Tupper and beyond. Once in a while do a bayway trip.

The Irving ships, which are really Kent Line ships, that are really managed by Vroon, are filipino and eastern european however some, if not the majority, of the captains are now Canadian citizens. The Acadian is Canadian top to bottom and sails internationally down to the states on occasion. Hornbeck, pre-genesis, had the Liberty service on a pretty stead St. John-New England run for a while but that’s since over with. No reason why OSG, crowley or whoever wouldn’t put a few of their ships on some of that work.

http://www.canship.com/cul/vessels.html

[QUOTE=tugsailor;128543]Canada has no restrictions on the use of foreign built vessels for either the coastwise trade or foreign trade.

Seaspan built new tugs in China a few years ago. Secunda Canada bought a few more OSVs in Norway last year. Foreign flag OSVs are allowed to operate in Canada, Maersk has a significant presence in the Canadian oil patch. As far as I know, its been quite awhile since any significant number of US vessels have worked in the Canadian oil patch. However, foreign flag vessels must be Canadian crewed within a pretty short period of time. Drill ships can get waivers to use non-Canadian skilled workers (drilling crew), but my understanding is that the waivers are very difficult to get for foreign mariners.

.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, definately not much domestic canadian tonnage, lot of chilean tugs i remember too. But they’re still Canadian Flagged with Canadian crews, ultimately jobs for mariners and security are the concern; shipbuilding is another whole issue.


#24

Canadian mariners do not make more than US mariners.


#25

[QUOTE=c.captain;128545]Steamer my friend…how could you forget MarAd also pumps blood to keep its own bucket of slithering KP leeches happily gorged and bloated?
![/QUOTE]

I have not forgotten that giant sucking sore on DC’s ass. The parasites at MARAD use KP the way a baker uses a jar of sourdough starter. When KP goes away the supply of baby MARAD leeches will dry up and maybe then the USMM might begin to recover from the beltway disease.

If KP is supposed to be a “service academy” then let each of the services throw enough cash on the table to run it. Otherwise shut it down and use the money to promote the American Merchant Marine and American mariners.


#26

[QUOTE=Steamer;128594]I have not forgotten that giant sucking sore on DC’s ass. The parasites at MARAD use KP the way a baker uses a jar of sourdough starter. When KP goes away the supply of baby MARAD leeches will dry up and maybe then the USMM might begin to recover from the beltway disease.

If KP is supposed to be a “service academy” then let each of the services throw enough cash on the table to run it. Otherwise shut it down and use the money to promote the American Merchant Marine and American mariners.[/QUOTE]

As much as I’m for shutting down KP and spreading the money around to things like shipbuilding subsidies, etc… I have to wonder if closing KP, even though it would be a good thing, would draw more negative attention to the USMM than positive. I can just see the pundits now: USMMA shut down, no longer necessary because we don’t have a merchant fleet any more, time to repeal the Jones Act because it’s obsolete and unnecessary as well. It is terrifying how close we came to repealing the Jones Act in the summer of 2010 when McCain argued that it was hindering the clean-up of the DWH spill.

I worry that closing the USMMA would send the wrong message to people who might have been “on the fence” but still voted against repealing the Jones Act. If it came up to a vote again the outcome might not be so favorable. I’m not saying don’t close KP, I want it as much as the next guy, but it would have to be framed and presented very very carefully and we would have to get the right kinds of public faces on our side.


#27

What about thoughts of a separate register for ships not trading between us ports, a system such as the Norwegian NIS or german GIS, brings money in and maintains a US flagged fleet, of course limited members are required to be US citizens and bottoms are not required to he US built. This preserves coastwise US built ships for strictly US mariners and allows for a larger US fleet trading internationally, making the US more competitive. Not taking a side here, just interesting to look at.

As for the cost of US mariners vs. foreign, strictly speaking of 1st world mariners, most are not requires to pay taxes if they are 183 days at sea. So the take home pay for US and foreign is largely in line, however to the company the foreign officer is much less expensive.

I doubt as to if either system could ever be implemented, just something to consider when looking at how the US is becoming less competitive.


#28

[QUOTE=redtide;128998]What about thoughts of a separate register for ships not trading between us ports, a system such as the Norwegian NIS or german GIS, brings money in and maintains a US flagged fleet, of course limited members are required to be US citizens and bottoms are not required to he US built. This preserves coastwise US built ships for strictly US mariners and allows for a larger US fleet trading internationally, making the US more competitive. Not taking a side here, just interesting to look at.

As for the cost of US mariners vs. foreign, strictly speaking of 1st world mariners, most are not requires to pay taxes if they are 183 days at sea. So the take home pay for US and foreign is largely in line, however to the company the foreign officer is much less expensive.

I doubt as to if either system could ever be implemented, just something to consider when looking at how the US is becoming less competitive.[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely right.

There was a lot of talk about starting as US International Ship Registry 20 years ago, American flag, but with only 25% US officers required. Unfortunately, the fools we have at MARAD and in Congress failed to follow through and get it done.

For US mariners to be competitive in the world crewing market, and get their fair share of global seagoing jobs, we need three things: A high quality training and licensing system that is recognized globally as at least equal to (and harmonized with) the UK; Zero US taxes on income earned while engaged in foreign trade (and no US tax paperwork burdens on foreign employers); and a free national health care system.


#29

[QUOTE=redtide;128998]What about thoughts of a separate register for ships not trading between us ports, a system such as the Norwegian NIS or german GIS, brings money in and maintains a US flagged fleet, of course limited members are required to be US citizens and bottoms are not required to he US built. This preserves coastwise US built ships for strictly US mariners and allows for a larger US fleet trading internationally, making the US more competitive. Not taking a side here, just interesting to look at.

As for the cost of US mariners vs. foreign, strictly speaking of 1st world mariners, most are not requires to pay taxes if they are 183 days at sea. So the take home pay for US and foreign is largely in line, however to the company the foreign officer is much less expensive.

I doubt as to if either system could ever be implemented, just something to consider when looking at how the US is becoming less competitive.[/QUOTE]

With tho the help of the chamber of commerce MARAD is pushing that idea.


#30

Another RoRo is joining the ARC fleet: http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/211750/pctc-liberty-joins-arcs-fleet/

I noticed that ARC is owned 50/50% by Wilhelmsen and Wallenius, which is now joined into one company.
With a fleet of 8 RoRos in international trade that is a large % of the active US fleet trading internationally: http://www.arcshipping.com/fleet/


#31

Herbert Hoover was well aware of the effects of the European powers (U.K., Germany, France) withdrawing their tonnage at the onset of WW1 in support of their war efforts leaving export cargo stranded throughout the U.S.A. and throttling imports and causing freight rates to soar to the detriment of our national economy.