USS J McCain / Alnic MC collision near Singapore


#202

Some articles I just read other may find interesting…

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017-08/collisions-part-i—what-are-root-causes

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017-08/collisions-part-ii—operational-pause

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2009-01/rude-awakening


#203

just another curious theory


#204

Just another oxygen wasting moron.


#205

I would rather call him warmonger.


#206

Especially the first two links are very enlightening. One observation in particular says it all I believe:

they preside over wardrooms of officers who have no such training. In short, when the crunch came, they were supported by officers who did not possess the wherewithal—sufficient real experience to assess problem situations and act promptly on them to avoid catastrophe—to truly support the COs.

As these officers with a serious lack of training are the next generation of CO’s so one may expect in the future more of the same tragedies. By ending the training facilities for only budgetary reasons as they did seems almost to be a criminal act to me. You donot win a war with undertrained officers. How could this happen? Unbelievable.


#207

In the discussions and investigations of Fitz and McCain, they should not forget/leave out the Porter.

It was 5 years ago now, but is clearly part of the same ‘pattern’ - an obviously incompetent dysfunctional (AB DDG) bridge team. But Navy chose to not investigate that seriously/systematically, picking the ‘few bad apples’ easy excuse.


#208

Or the USS Guardian. Same story same reasons, same findings, different day.

"USS GUARDIAN leadership and watch teams failed to adhere to prudent, safe, and sound navigation principles which would have alerted them to approaching dangers with sufficient time to take mitigating action. "

http://www.cpf.navy.mil/foia/reading-room/2013/06/uss-guardian-grounding.pdf


#209

IMG_2109

Looking at the bent plating at the right the Alnic MC hit the John McCain at an angle of something like 45°. Also the dent in main deck plating and the railing suggests the same.

ALNIC MC sustained damage to her Fore Peak Tank 7m [23 feet] above the waterline, with no crew injuries," the statement read.

You donot have to wait too long before this sort of ‘funny pictures’ will surface…


#210

Doesn’t look like the bulbous has suffered any damages from cutting into the this skin and weak frames of the destroyer.


#211

Somebody is gaining from the USN’s misfortune: http://www.todayonline.com/world/us-navy-collisions-propaganda-windfall-china


#212

Not meaning to derail the topic but reading that made me think some of what the Chinese are saying might be applied to the condition of our medical “care” system. It is the most expensive on the planet but otherwise a crumbling shadow of what it should and could be because of political corruption and a distortion of purpose. The fact that the “service providers” (Navy industry or medical industry) have grown so fat and so far removed from accountability while living the lives of royals is either a contributing factor or a symptom - or both.

Our Supreme Cheeto’s fascination with generals and admirals will only make things worse as they feather their nests in the shadow of his hero worshiping and drum beating. Short of a profound change in military management and oversight of defense contractors nothing will change. Eisenhower got it right, he warned us but we wouldn’t listen.


#213

Interesting. Illuminating. Frightening. Sad.

And I say that as a SWO who retired in 1993, was trained as a deck watch stander in the early 1970s by really good, really demanding officers and senior enlisted, who used the radian rule every day (and still does), and who had no trouble with any of the seamanshhip, stability, ROR, or navigation modules on the exams for my original Chief Mates license (after I learned The Sailings).

I guess I was just fortunate to be trained, and guided, as I was. I grieve for what is no longer there.


#214

Yes, I always found it quite exceptional that especially he, as an ex army man and General, warned us against the ‘military industrial complex’. He must have known much more of course but was probably not at liberty to say more at his farewell speech.

Later on the deregulating forces sprung up and spread like wild fire adding to the destabilization of the system. The ‘Fat Leonard’ thing is, I think, only a tiny incident in the sea of unwanted connections between the military and the industry.


#215

No, it seems that not even the paint of the bulbous bow has suffered much. Not much rub off of grey paint either to be seen…


#216

Or the Essex, when she hit the oiler she was taking on fuel from.

Apparently the XO was shouting to “watch the stern!” in from the bridge wing at the OOD, but gave no actual rudder commands or guidance. Then of course they swung their stern straight into the oiler.


#217

Then of course there is the issue of having career aviators skipper our largest naval ships.


#218

Don’t even get me started on that subject.


#219

Was on the Iwo Jima once and the CO was a brown shoe and I must admit he had his shit together.


#220

Not at all. The only time you use their names is in correspondence.

Day-to-day conversations you call them “Captain” or “XO”. Some ships will refer to their CO as “Skipper”. And sometimes you call them “Sir.”

Even in Deck Logs, you use CO or XO (except at the change of command, the full name of the new CO is listed in the Deck Log as having relieved the outgoing CO. Then that deck log is closed and signed by the outgoing CO).


#221

Slightly different subject, I have been scouring the web to find a condolence book to sign, for both Fitzgerald and McCain lost crew members. I don’t live in the US but in Europe, I have tried the local US Embassy but as yet no condolence book opened. Can anyone help?