Transatlantic lines (TAL) current situation


#226

That’s not exactly the whole story now, is it? :slight_smile: If so, it’s truly a rags to riches story.


#227

seems pretty accurate to me


#228

He left on a trawler in 1979 and did not return until 1990, are you telling me that it was a long con by the Norwegian government to steal your fish?


#229

pretty much…they found every loophole and they set up Kjell to use them to make the first billion for him and who knows how much for Christiania Bank

between the Bering Sea, the Gulf of Mexico and DoD contracts, the Scandinavians have found very easy pickings here in the good ol US of A


#230

Do you even believe your own story?


#231

Worst shipowner I ever worked for was a Norwegian.


#232

why not? how am I wrong pray tell?


#233

PSA: The subject of this thread is: Transatlantic Lines (TAL) Current Situation.
I believe there is another separate thread already dedicated to slamming Scandahooligans.
Thank you.
And now back to our regularly scheduled programming…


#234

Røkke did not receive loans from the Norwegian Government, and we do not have any “state plans” to exploit America.

And tell me, why hadn’t any Americans already built a monopoly on the Pollock fishery in the Bering Sea? Did you really need a bunch of Norwegians to show you how to fish?


#235

Of course there is a lot more to the story, but I’m commenting on an Internet forum, not writing a history textbook. I never knew the whole story and I’ve forgotten a lot after 30 years. Kjell came to America and went fishing. He bought a boat and went bankrupt. Next, he borrowed $150 million in Norway, built three excellent boats in Norway, caught a lot of fish in Alaska, invested wisely in Norway, and became a billionaire.

As I recall, it was about 1990 when Christiania bank became insolvent. It had financed someone in Norway to buy zillions of Norwegian frozen farmed salmon in an attempt to corner the world salmon market. The scheme failed spectacularly and took Christiania Bank, the number three bank in Norway, down with it. The Norwegian government had to put billions of dollars into the bank. In effect, Norway owned and controlled Christiania Bank.

Christiana Bank opened an office in Seattle that made a lot of reckless loans to a lot of Norwegians and Norwegian-Americans for fishing boats in the US. Of course the bank was backed by the Norwegian government. Norway was also subsidizing its maritime cluster in a big way. A lot of those loans in Seattle went bad and Christiania Bank had to leave Seattle. When those Norwegians, and Norwegian-Americans, had their companies go bankrupt many American crewmen and vendors were left unpaid. A few of those guys were little more than frontmen for Norwegian organized crime.

One might say, that Gudmunder at TAL is just following the Norwegian business plan for America.


#236

We did not need any Norwegians to show us how to catch fish. There were so many fish that any farm boy could easily catch a boat load.

There were a few really good Norwegian fishermen in Alaska, but there were a lot of unemployed Norwegian seal clubbers and whalers that really didn’t know much about fishing. The only thing a lot of those guys knew about catching fish was to get on the radio and ask some other Norwegian, where are the fish.

What Americans needed was access to big money to capitalize a new fishery in a remote and expensive place. The Russians pioneered the fishery and got Americans into it with joint ventures. Also, the Japanese had been fishing in Alaska for years. They mostly built shore plants feed by American fishing boats. Yes, some Japanese financed boats too.

What the Norwegians brought to the fishery that Americans lacked was big money, and modern well equipped factory trawlers.


#237

I’m sure a lot is forgotten and most of it is hearsay. But I liked that you took the time to write that. Was expecting a eat shit picture from c.c


#238

A lot is forgotten or not remembered clearly. A lot is hearsay. But I was there.


#239

As an internationally trading master looking in from the outside the USA seems to have gotten itself, in terms of its Maritime industries into a real mess.

There is:

Corporate America where corporations can play the market to the edge of the rules and do so frequently.

USCG with its myriad and obscure (to someone used to STCW) licensing

Inconsistent USCG inspections that penalize Foreign vessels whilst overlooking Domestic vessel

The 19th century Unions

Family owner that skate on thin ice.

Legislation that evolves like treacle.

And a dozen other things I know nothing of!

The USA had one great Maritime innovator - Malcolm Maclean.

Where is the next?

The world’s largest dredging fleets are Dutch & Belgian

The Euros are not afraid to innovate and that has kept them ahead.

http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/227106/egbert-wagenborg/

https://www.wagenborg.com/


#240

The history of the Norwegian introducing modern Factory Trawlers with Japanese Surimi factories on board is very interesting. It was a kind of Klondike for some years, with a lot of waste, but a lot of money being made and lost by the various participants.

Creating modern Factory Trawlers out of anything with an American Builder’s Certificate became a salvation for Norwegian shipyards in the 1980’s.

Kjell Inge Rokke was the man on the spot at the right time, but not the initial “creator” of the Norwegian invasion of the Bearing Sea. Here is a bit of the history of how that came about: https://books.google.no/books?id=U8Dsqi7eSmIC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=History+of+Norwegian+factory+trawlers+in+Alaska&source=bl&ots=GoUA0TgkGW&sig=9CdV_hLMWqJUhBH6Ct_Ekee3EsI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgwLiby9vVAhUjYpoKHUwHBLQQ6AEIXjAJ#v=onepage&q=History%20of%20Norwegian%20factory%20trawlers%20in%20Alaska&f=false

BTW; Here is the trawler KIR started his career on as Oiler, now under Russian flag:


#241

I must take issue with that one … it seems like the CG has a very heavy hand on the American flag fleet. They know who we are, they know where we live, and they know that if we complain too loudly they can make our personal and professional lives miserable.

Way back in another life I performed ship inspections on the Columbia River for the Washington State Department of Ecology. I saw the CG give a pass to many FoC ships for conditions that would have an American flag ship welded to the pier. If anything, the truth is 180 degrees from your claim.

Oh, and by the way, those 19th century unions exist because our government and employers operate with a 19th century view of working conditions and the rights of labor.


#242

If it is the Columbia river then the logging exporters would be an invisible influence.

Exactly

I sympathize with the domestic situation, but the fact is the USCG acts in an autocratic way and is different to the MoU inspections. I have been in Eastern and Western ports where the vessel was in class, all certs up to date but USCG didn’t like the make of some safety gear forcing us to buy local. Anywhere else in the world saw it as compliant.

As an example most MoUs are extremely transparent.

https://www.parismou.org/


#243

For what it’s worth, it looks like the little shitstain is trying (maybe succeeded?) in evading potential claims on his ill gotten gains by this little scam that seems to have annoyed his Greenwich neighbors.


#244

Looks like he has transferred title to the real estate to a new company that will sell the property to the Hebrew school, if it get zoning approvals.

This sounds like a fraudulent conveyance to me, but if TAL can avoid filing for bankruptcy for more than 90 days after the transfer, they will probably get away with it.

Does anyone know what the story is on his partner Brandon Rose?


#245

I think he is the strawman Gudmundur needed to form the company since he is not a US citizen. Considering Gudmundur’s foul history he seems to fit all of the Supreme Cheeto’s definitions of the people he wants to deport.

I think he will probably self deport as soon as he liquidates everything he can. Even though Iceland has an extradition treaty they are known for harboring fugitives from the US.

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/06/10/190364501/you-face-a-u-s-legal-problem-where-should-you-run