Top jobs for a PIC + TOAR?


#1

I am wondering what vessels a mate would work on that would require both a Tankerman PIC and Towing Endorsement? I can think of ones that would be required for a PIC or a TOAR, but for both I am thinking there might be something, say with better benefits and job stability.


#2

almost every ATB deck officer job requires both since almost all are pushing petroleum barges

having both is a very nice combination and very marketable


#3

K-Sea transportation in New York, Crowley, Penn Maritime. Use Mates as Cargo Mates requiring both. Question is why would you want to risk your license by pumping cargo? Tankerman PIC is an endorsement on a MMD.


#4

that’s correct, 2nds and Chief Mates sail the boat AND tank the barge. In the case of Chief Mates for THIRTY MORE DOLLARS A DAY. Sorry, but I ain’t taking that kind of risk for that kind of money hence my exile aboard wire boats. I’ll live with it.


#5

I’ve you’ve ever sailed a tanker you’d know that they do not have tankermen to load and discharge cargo. It was only towed tank barges that have used tankermen in the past.

Since an ATB is more tanker, I don’t see why the mate’s shouldn’t work the barge as well but provided that they are [U][I]compensated [/I][/U]for the dual role. Tanker deck officers have always been paid better than just about anywhere else because of the nature of the job which has always been a ball buster. It is all too often frigid, windy or pouring rain out there on the deck of that ship and never, ever any fun.

Been there, done that and money be damned, left for something easier…


#6

c.captain, I never felt I was paid all that much better when working on a tanker than others, but that my be a U_nion issue. I actually felt shafted. Felt like I was better compensated for my time and effort on ships that paid base + OT.

That said, I always took the job of being PIC as part of the job. We all knew there was a risk, but we did our job professionally and were careful. In my experience, those that didn’t like the risk moved on to other segments of the merchant marine. (and I don’t mean that in a derogatory way).


#7

OT is just about moot with the 12 hr rule on the ATBs. Sea watches are generally 4&8 and cargo watches 12 & 12. Some contracts have penalty OT for tank entries.


#8

I know the differences of line of work between tankermen on tank-barges and cargo mates. I was able to understand that type of work (tankermen) more clearly because of the small crew and simpler operations, whereas when observing the crew on a tanker, the operation is much more complicated generally, but more rewarding.

It seemed a pretty good hitch for a tankerman, go down to the refinery when a barge came in, do some soundings, paperwork, chicksans setup, do the load, and be done with. However, I am positive the salary and benefits are dwarfed by those of a cargo mate.

Considering a tankerman doesn’t at all require a mate’s license, I wonder if God forbid something happens as you’re a tankerman, would your mate’s license be in jeopardy? It shouldn’t but then considering the logic the USCG employs I wouldnt be surprised (I’ve got great TWIC stories).


#9

[quote=argo;7829]
Considering a tankerman doesn’t at all require a mate’s license, I wonder if God forbid something happens as you’re a tankerman, would your mate’s license be in jeopardy?[/quote]

That’s the whole point isn’t it?
Company sells it to customers that THEIR officers pump cargo and are therefore MORE responsible (NO slight aimed tankermen here).
With yer license at risk yer gonna be a WHOLE lot more uptight and hopefully more cognizant of operations as a result. Properly compensated this wouldn’t be an issue for me.


#10

ATB’s are still relativly new. Being that companies will not pay one cent more than it takes to crew and operate, it’ll take another contract cycle for wages to decant.

Like 'em or not, tankers and conventional tank barges can’t compete with 'em in the coastwise trade.


#11

What wages are say Crowley paying for PIC/TOAR mates? How many of them can there be out there? I wouldn’t think it was a big number. I’ve got my MOTV endorsement and tried to get on with Crowley to sail on their ATBs but they made it clear that no PIC no position.


#12

I have not seen the exact #s but I’ll look at the contracts next week in the hall. CM’s do about $485, 2ndM $450, and tkm $400. The ATB’s are over 200 ton and all of the new ones will be over 300 tons therefore inspected.


#13

You would think that considering the size of Crowley, they would need people, or at least have a pool of trainees. Did you have the Tankerman Assistant on your MMD so you only needed to do your 5 & 5?


#14

No, I did not get that endorsement and since I am now gainfully employed in the GoM making more money than Crowley pays, I have not looked back. Perhaps one day I’ll get that endorsement so I can someday have the full PIC. I really believe in having every possible piece of paper in one’s professional portfolio of certs. It really has become the only way to get decent jobs these days.


#15

Pic barge is what you need on the ATBs. From what I’ve seen across the fleets, Crowley ans USS have the best equipment. I think all are equal time rotation and paid transportation. School and insurance costs need to be weighed also.


#16

If you’re working on a drillship in the GOM, your company may send you for the class for the PIC. I did my class in school, but my company at the time sent me to a port refinery to do my loads and discharges, no expense on my part.
I know you dont need a PIC to be on a drillship, but fueling/bunkering, and the occasional storage of samples or whatnot from the hole are reasons for the company to send you for training.


#17

I took a job straight out of school with K-Sea, didnt have PIC or TOAR, sailed as OS (while holding a 3/M’s)…ended up leaving on account of the chances ot move up were just to slow for my liking at the time, looking back (5years later) might not have been a bad place to stick around with, they seemed to have grown considerably.

At that time, they crewed with Capt, C/M PIC, 2/M PIC, 2 AB/PIC, 1 OS, 1 Eng. Pay for 2/M PIC was in the upper 300’s to low 400’s i think. Not a bad job I would say, and if you have those credentials, Id say a C/M spot is waiting on you.

Im not so sure I understand the conflict of sailing mate & working on the barge as the PIC, maybe sense thats all Ive ever seen, its all im used to, but Ive always been under the impression thats just how it goes for coastwise ATB’s. Now the inland stuff seems like an entirely different ballgame, they (KSea) had alot of that too, but their offshore guys pretty much stayed seperate from thier harbor crews.

Its funny how the impressions are different from each company out there, at a recent job fair this past fall, I talked with about 6 different ATB companies, (Crowley, Moran, McCallister, KSea, and more) each one had its own opinion of what you were worth…some recruiters were actually insulting towards guys with Unlimited licenses & PICs wanting to work on the boats but w/o TOAR’s. Other companies had aggressive TOAR programs to push you along and get you into a C/M or CargoMate spot.

Differents strokes i guess…Good Luck


#18

argo

I am afraid that the USCG is insisting that all loads and discharges be from a tank ship or tank barge which is really the way it should be because if bunkerings counted, the market would be flooded with guys who had no clue how to do the job on the deck of a petroluem carrier.

Early in my career I worked tankers as third mate and stood cargo watches on deck and let me say that is was never, ever any fun! I decided that I would rather pass on the extra money and have a career which I enjoyed.


#19

Could you please explain what you mean by insurance costs?

[quote=c.captain;7978]argo

I am afraid that the USCG is insisting that all loads and discharges be from a tank ship or tank barge which is really the way it should be because if bunkerings counted, the market would be flooded with guys who had no clue how to do the job on the deck of a petroluem carrier.

Early in my career I worked tankers as third mate and stood cargo watches on deck and let me say that is was never, ever any fun! I decided that I would rather pass on the extra money and have a career which I enjoyed.[/quote]

I could see working on tankers not be that enjoyable in some cases, though the tankermen on barges I met I think did enjoy their work. In the least I didn’t meet any tankerman with the “i can’t wait to go home” attitude. I’m thinking a lot has to do too with the generally longer hitches on tankers compared to barges.


#20

argo
Most companies under SIU contract pay the insurance contributions for the employee which is not taxable income. A friend of mine left the Crowley toad fleet and retired his book. He was shocked to find he had to pay over $600 @ month with after tax dollars for the same coverage insurance at the non-union company he is working for now.