Thoughts and concerns of the new Regimental Administrators at SUNY Maritime


#201

Tugsailor, been following Gcaptain for quite some time., you seem to be a credible and seasoned individual. Thread started regarding Suny administrators. Morphed into KP too (not unusual). All the crap these young people go through with the regimental stuff and still persevere in the end is commendable. Agree, much brownwater coming out, but from BOTH ends. There will always be room for good Leaders, and good Mariners, no matter what the “War” situation is. They will assert themselves with or without help from Alumni and their respective institutions. MUCH better…WITH help from both working together.

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#202

My thoughts and concerns of the new Regimental Administrators at SUNY Maritime are as follows. I believe that there needs to be a regiment. I think that the rules need to be in place and that they need to be followed. Nothing that this school asks of a Cadet is difficult to follow. Show up to formation, shave and wear the uniform and you are all set. Don’t act stupid and just follow the rules and this place will be no problem for you. A problem that I do have with the new “regime” is the fact that they write and enforce these new rules for Cadets but do not follow them themselves in their day to day routine. Now I understand that they are not bound by the rules in the same way that Cadets are but some of the rules in place are common courtesy. For example, regarding liberty. They ask and require that liberty request forms be fully signed and submitted to the Battalion Officer for approval 72 hours in advance. That is not difficult to do. Simply get the 3 required Cadet signatures at morning formation and take it to the officer after formation. What bothers me is that there have been numerous occasions that Cadets have taken the liberty to the officer 72 hours or more in advance and been told that they will get an email when their liberty is ready to be picked up either approved or disapproved. Well, liberty time came and they had not received an email or have not received the liberty form signed by the officer. How can they expect the courtesy out of the Cadet when they don’t even return a liberty form before the Cadet’s liberty begins. That is just unprofessional if you ask me. The same thing goes for watch bills. They write the rules stating that watch bills need to be made and posted 2 weeks in advance. There are numerous occasions during the school year where Cadets do not find out if they are on the watch bill until watch muster at morning formation the day of watch. Again, that is just plain unprofessionalism. A lot of this comes back to the Cadets because this school is run essentially by the Cadets. The officers are just there in an administrative position. An example is company ED sessions in the evenings. They expect the Cadet Operations Officer to enforce the uniform at ED. (i.e. boots, cover, boiler suit etc.). When Cadets are working at ED and an officer sees them out of uniform they yell at the Cadet (which is right and acceptable. It is his fault for being stupid) but hardly ever do you hear of a Cadet Operations Officer being held responsible for allowing that out of uniform Cadet to perform ED. He should have been turned away at the muster. I believe that this school is headed in the right direction but the regiment needs to be weeded out. I think that once all of the pre-Hanft Cadets are gone this place will run perfectly fine. It just takes some time. Once this place is fixed it will operate more efficiently. My advice to everyone that disagrees with the way things are now is just put up or shut up. If you don’t like it here, GTFO. In the industry if you do not like having to wear a uniform (i.e. proper PPE) you will get fired and there is nothing you can do to argue. This system is in place to prepare you for the industry. It may not be the same conditions as the industry but they are trying to build a person that will be able to excel in the industry.


#203

Wow that is the funniest shit I’ve heard all weekend. There is nothing going on in any of these regiments that is remotely close to day to day life at sea.


#204

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;107296]Wow that is the funniest shit I’ve heard all weekend. There is nothing going on in any of these regiments that is remotely close to day to day life at sea.[/QUOTE]

I explicitly said that it doesn’t train a Cadet in the same situations but builds a Cadet that will be able to handle situations at sea. The regiment trains Cadets to be professional and to be prepared. Everything that the regiment does has a reason and there are many companies throughout the country that will only hire Schuyler grads. That says something about the training because a new hire needs to be able to fall right in with the flow of the crew and being able to adapt to the new life is necessary. The regiment, in its own little way, prepares a Cadet for that.

Fraqrat, may I ask, have you/do you attended/attend an academy?


#205

[QUOTE=“RoTc4;107300”]
and there are many companies throughout the country that will only hire Schuyler grads. That says something about the training…[/QUOTE]

Yea that does say something… THE OLD WAY WAS WORKING FINE!

I agree there should be a regimented type training. No one likes a slob who is always late to work and learning attention to detail can keep you out of a bad situation or keep someone from getting injured or killed. But it sounds like things are out of hand and this will NOT help the school’s image.


#206

[QUOTE=RoTc4;107300]The regiment trains Cadets to be prepared. [/QUOTE]

So does the Boy Scouts.


#207

[QUOTE=ryanwood86;107302]I agree there should be a regimented type training. No one likes a slob who is always late to work and learning attention to detail can keep you out of a bad situation or keep someone from getting injured or killed. But it sounds like things are out of hand and this will NOT help the school’s image.[/QUOTE]

Ok. Again, I agree with what is said here but the only reason that it sounds like it is getting out of hand to you is because you do not go here currently (I’m assuming). As I mentioned in my original post if you just do what is expected of you it is not bad. This thread is fueled by the pussies that love to complain just because they got written up. Is it too much to ask to wear your uniform to a night class or to shave on the weekends. NO!. People like that give this school a bad image. Once those people are gone this place will be just fine. The “Old Way” was much worse than it is now. This place is going down the drain and the new regiment is fixing it. Like I said, it just takes some time and some weeding out of the people that don’t deserve to regimentally be here. The regiment is part of the license program whether you like it or not. If you don’t follow the rules you will not get your license.


#208

[QUOTE=RoTc4;107295]My thoughts and concerns of the new Regimental Administrators at SUNY Maritime are as follows. I believe that there needs to be a regiment. I think that the rules need to be in place and that they need to be followed. Nothing that this school asks of a Cadet is difficult to follow. Show up to formation, shave and wear the uniform and you are all set. Don’t act stupid and just follow the rules and this place will be no problem for you. A problem that I do have with the new “regime” is the fact that they write and enforce these new rules for Cadets but do not follow them themselves in their day to day routine. Now I understand that they are not bound by the rules in the same way that Cadets are but some of the rules in place are common courtesy. For example, regarding liberty. They ask and require that liberty request forms be fully signed and submitted to the Battalion Officer for approval 72 hours in advance. That is not difficult to do. Simply get the 3 required Cadet signatures at morning formation and take it to the officer after formation. What bothers me is that there have been numerous occasions that Cadets have taken the liberty to the officer 72 hours or more in advance and been told that they will get an email when their liberty is ready to be picked up either approved or disapproved. Well, liberty time came and they had not received an email or have not received the liberty form signed by the officer. How can they expect the courtesy out of the Cadet when they don’t even return a liberty form before the Cadet’s liberty begins. That is just unprofessional if you ask me. The same thing goes for watch bills. They write the rules stating that watch bills need to be made and posted 2 weeks in advance. There are numerous occasions during the school year where Cadets do not find out if they are on the watch bill until watch muster at morning formation the day of watch. Again, that is just plain unprofessionalism. A lot of this comes back to the Cadets because this school is run essentially by the Cadets. The officers are just there in an administrative position. An example is company ED sessions in the evenings. They expect the Cadet Operations Officer to enforce the uniform at ED. (i.e. boots, cover, boiler suit etc.). When Cadets are working at ED and an officer sees them out of uniform they yell at the Cadet (which is right and acceptable. It is his fault for being stupid) but hardly ever do you hear of a Cadet Operations Officer being held responsible for allowing that out of uniform Cadet to perform ED. He should have been turned away at the muster. I believe that this school is headed in the right direction but the regiment needs to be weeded out. I think that once all of the pre-Hanft Cadets are gone this place will run perfectly fine. It just takes some time. Once this place is fixed it will operate more efficiently. My advice to everyone that disagrees with the way things are now is just put up or shut up. If you don’t like it here, GTFO. In the industry if you do not like having to wear a uniform (i.e. proper PPE) you will get fired and there is nothing you can do to argue. This system is in place to prepare you for the industry. It may not be the same conditions as the industry but they are trying to build a person that will be able to excel in the industry.[/QUOTE]

On the one hand you seem to believe there are problems with the regiment yet also believe that the school is headed in the right direction with at least some of the blame on the PreHanft Cadets who pose a problem. It does not sound as if the school is headed in the right direction by your own standards. While I do believe a regiment has the potential to show the importance of detail, often a person must think outside the box in order to solve a problem. To look good and take orders is one thing but to have an overall understanding is another. I disagree with your GTFO comment as you yourself seem to not like what you see. I feel that it is important to listen to the complaints and issues of Cadets so as to change policies for the better if need be. Don’t feel as though I am attacking you but merely giving my opinion.


#209

OK you enjoy that. Enjoy buying all the extra uniforms and having the extra inspections and when you are done, go join the Navy. But don’t try to lecture alum who are in the industry…


#210

This is so lame… they should disband the regiments at ALL the schools. Looks at all the fuss about it. You see it almost every day on gcaptain, and the people in the industry clearly know how pointless it is, and how much money and time could be diverted to other things… At least support a school like cal, tma or great lakes if you want to go into the maritime industry. These schools are moving away from this system, and soon it will be something of the past.
Effort should be spent on practical training…


#211

Just to add to this, most of the alumni separation from the administration has to do with control of the money from the fundraising the FSMAA does, not over reg vs nonreg.

Yea they strongly support the license program but the crux of the issue is the school administration wanted control of the funds and the FSMAA refused, so they were kicked off campus. It’s the school who continues the stalemate, not the other way around. They are definitely not content with the separation. If you subscribe to Domenet, the alumni email list thing you’ll learn more about the issue.


#212

[QUOTE=Lone_Star;107310]This is so lame… they should disband the regiments at ALL the schools. Looks at all the fuss about it. You see it almost every day on gcaptain, and the people in the industry clearly know how pointless it is, and how much money and time could be diverted to other things… At least support a school like cal, tma or great lakes if you want to go into the maritime industry. These schools are moving away from this system, and soon it will be something of the past.
Effort should be spent on practical training…[/QUOTE]

No, the regiment serves a purpose. We have a saying that before you can give an order, you needs to know how to take an order. The discipline associated with the regiment is important.

There is a point however where discipline goes beyond respect for authority and interfers with the primary mission of educating future merchant mariner officers. Based on what I’m reading here and on a few other threads, it appears SUNY M has crossed that line.

If I was a NYS resident looking for a career at sea, try my damnest to get into a Federal Academy - USMMA, USCGA or USNA. I’d pay out of state tuition before I’d sign up for SUNY M right now. Residents outside NYS have more options for State Schools and should just take SUNY M off their list.


#213

If Hanft keeps doing what she is doing, she will bring the school down one way or another. Talk about cadet’s putting money together for a class action law suit against what Hanft is doing, sounds justified, but will essentially end up being a law suit against SUNY Maritime, not Hanft herself. If SUNY Maritime wants to keep their reputation, customers (students), and funding, Hanft needs to leave. Upon her termination/resignation, I’d say about 80% or her ‘rulings’ should be over turned. She has personally gotten cadets kicked off of cruise and out of the regiment, single-handed, by unfairly changing the number of demerits for a certain offense just to put a certain cadet over their demerit cap. Cadets are starting to realize there are real monetary damages that occur based on Hanfts actions and decisions. MONETARY DAMAGES = LAW SUIT. There has been a loss of Due Process as Hanft’s decisions are final.

I really hope someone puts together an anonymous survey that would gather the effects of Hanfts actions on an individual basis, analyze, and pursue justice. Once it comes to that, and in the hands of a lawyer, the institution of SUNY Maritime will be at risk.


#214

This over the top regimental crap from the WWII era that some of these schools have gotten back into is really absurd in 2013.

What is really pathetic are these masochistic little toy sailor wannabes that think this regimental crap is not only good for them, but they actually get off on it.


#215

No I did not attend an academy. I can see wearing a uniform of some sort like jeans and a t shirt. I can see being clean shaven and well groomed. The whole pretend military thing is a bit much. Shiny boots, pressed uniforms, demerits and all of that nonsense is over the top.


#216

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;107319] No I did not attend an academy. I can see wearing a uniform of some sort like jeans and a t shirt. I can see being clean shaven and well groomed.[/QUOTE]

When a person reaches the age to attend college the basics of hygiene and personal discipline should be all ready be well established. It is taught by parents from the days of potty training, to the days of understanding personal and financial responsibility and the development of organizational skills. None of this comes from a regimental system. A regimental system serves the military but not maritime. Does a University where young men and women learn how to be heart surgeons need a regimental system? Of course, not!

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;107319]The whole pretend military thing is a bit much. Shiny boots, pressed uniforms, demerits and all of that nonsense is over the top.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree, the problem seems that way too many former military officers became involved with KP and the State Academies, officers who for the most part do not understand the Merchant Marine, its colorful history, its unique soul. This insistence on a regimental system is baseless, the sea (I am assuming one attends a Maritime Academy because of a desire to work at sea) teaches its own discipline and woe to those who don’t learn it.


#217

someone once asked you once to mention one or two of those schuyler exclusive companies, any chance you could?


#218

[QUOTE=Jetryder223;107316]No, the regiment serves a purpose. We have a saying that before you can give an order, you needs to know how to take an order. The discipline associated with the regiment is important. [/QUOTE]

Finally someone gets it. Thank You. The regiment is important because I cannot imagine any of the “civilian” students at SUNY Maritime have the professionalism to get a job over a Cadet that has the Regiment experience.

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;107319]No I did not attend an academy. I can see wearing a uniform of some sort like jeans and a t shirt. I can see being clean shaven and well groomed. The whole pretend military thing is a bit much. Shiny boots, pressed uniforms, demerits and all of that nonsense is over the top.[/QUOTE]

How else are the schools supposed to be effective. If there is no way to reprimand offenders how is the system supposed to work. You can tell someone to do something but if there are no consequences for disobedience you just look like a hypocrite.

For those of you that want to say that this is nothing like the industry please tell me, are there forms that get filled out for employees that do not wear proper PPE or do not follow procedures properly? Are there disciplinary forms that get filled out for employees worthy of such? You don’t even need to answer that question. The answer is YES. Gee, that sounds like demerits to me. What do you know, these academies do reflect real life and do offer training for the Cadet’s future employment.

Just because a Cadet is a Cadet doesn’t necessarily mean that they have no experience in the industry. Please think before you speak and if you have not attended an academy maybe you should do your research before you go criticizing everyone that puts time and effort into the regiments at the academies.

This is also for everyone at SUNY Maritime, just MAN-THE-F****-UP. This school is not that difficult and the regiment is not an issue in your everyday lives. It does not interfere with your studies. If anything it helps you because it wakes you up in the morning so you don’t miss class and it tells you what clothes to wear. If you can’t handle the simple, easy structure I pity each and everyone of you on your first ship as a third mate. Good luck not getting fired.

Also for everyone at SUNY Maritime, you are all adults now. So for those of you that call mommy every time that someone yells at you or tells you to shave, GTFO. You can’t go running home to mommy when you are on a ship in the middle of the ocean. The parent’s association at SUNY Maritime is ridiculous. There is no need for parent involvement in a college students life.


#219

[QUOTE=“RoTc4;107340”]

Finally someone gets it. Thank You. The regiment is important because I cannot imagine any of the “civilian” students at SUNY Maritime have the professionalism to get a job over a Cadet that has the Regiment experience.

How else are the schools supposed to be effective. If there is no way to reprimand offenders how is the system supposed to work. You can tell someone to do something but if there are no consequences for disobedience you just look like a hypocrite.

For those of you that want to say that this is nothing like the industry please tell me, are there forms that get filled out for employees that do not wear proper PPE or do not follow procedures properly? Are there disciplinary forms that get filled out for employees worthy of such? You don’t even need to answer that question. The answer is YES. Gee, that sounds like demerits to me. What do you know, these academies do reflect real life and do offer training for the Cadet’s future employment.

Just because a Cadet is a Cadet doesn’t necessarily mean that they have no experience in the industry. Please think before you speak and if you have not attended an academy maybe you should do your research before you go criticizing everyone that puts time and effort into the regiments at the academies.

This is also for everyone at SUNY Maritime, just MAN-THE-F****-UP. This school is not that difficult and the regiment is not an issue in your everyday lives. It does not interfere with your studies. If anything it helps you because it wakes you up in the morning so you don’t miss class and it tells you what clothes to wear. If you can’t handle the simple, easy structure I pity each and everyone of you on your first ship as a third mate. Good luck not getting fired.

Also for everyone at SUNY Maritime, you are all adults now. So for those of you that call mommy every time that someone yells at you or tells you to shave, GTFO. You can’t go running home to mommy when you are on a ship in the middle of the ocean. The parent’s association at SUNY Maritime is ridiculous. There is no need for parent involvement in a college students life.[/QUOTE]

Dude shut up. Telling everyone to GTFO and man up and they don’t know the regiment (and your name) just shows you are eating up this little power trip…

What kind of industry experience do you have? If you have any experience, you would know a regament like this is nothing like the industry. What class are you? You’re really starting to annoy me.


#220

There are plenty of professional schools that require basic uniforms without having harsh punishment for offenders. Think culinary, veterinary science, nursing, basically all medical careers. Those students are able to follow the rules for the most part, and if they don’t they fail the class/clinical rotation/internship. Obviously there’s no need for a hardcore demerit system and these little tinpot dictators, and I have to assume you’re one of them, that it creates.