No swimming pool but it appears the tee for the 13th hole on the nearby golf course is right outside his back door.
[QUOTE=LI_Domer;183145]I might be wrong but I think If the containers are labeled as origin [US Port] and Destination [US Port] it’s not allowed. Maybe if a cargo cleared customs in a foreign port and was then moved onto a different ship it might be but that would then become too expensive to be a loophole.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t ask if it was allowed, but whether it was done??
I was also not talking only about containers. Bulk cargoes, like grain and/or oil products comes to mind.
You would probably have to find a way to change Manifest and Bill of Lading. (That’s what we did in Colombo)
You know them Commies, they’ll do anything for some US$.
If I’m not mistaken there are/have been Crude Oil shipped from GOM via Canada?? That is probably actually transshipped there, or even refined, before being brought back to the US as “foreign products”. (I could be wrong, maybe that was only for some special events)
[QUOTE=Colston1285;183081]There’s still no way in hell I’m voting for that lying scumbag CUNT, period. :)[/QUOTE]
I’m going to come back to this thread in November. Just to laugh at the fucking dumbass remarks people made.
yes mostly it’s shale oil from the west (some of it may actually be canadian) shipped from Albany to St. John then shipped back as product. That exemption existed before the export ban being lifted.
This is why I tried (unsuccessfully) explaining to you MONTHS ago why lifting the export ban was bad for the domestic shipping market.
[QUOTE=ombugge;183112]Yes, cracking down on Delaware, one of the main Tax Heavens in the world would be a good idea. London, Zurich, Luxembourg etc. is not far behind. Come to think of it, isn’t Wilmington, Delaware the “Home port” of many US Ships and Hq for many Shipping companies?[/QUOTE]
There goes that anti American snark again. Tax havens are places like Bermuda, where 99% of Google’s money is “earned” (and many other companies worldwide). Flags of convenience started because people were using tax havens.
Yea, if he knew what he was talking about he would know that Delaware doesn’t help with federal taxes, just state. But allegedly it’s a better state to do business in for other reasons, mostly legally.
[QUOTE=z-drive;183164]Yea, if he knew what he was talking about he would know that Delaware doesn’t help with federal taxes, just state. But allegedly it’s a better state to do business in for other reasons, mostly legally.[/QUOTE]
I’m not the only one that doesn’t know apparently: http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/06/tax-havens-delaware-bermuda-markets-singapore-belgium.html
By the way, I’m NOT Anti-American. I AM anti-hypocrisy no matter from which source, or country.
All I do is counter untrue statements with facts. How can facts be anti-anything??
To bring this back to the original subject; Does any of the candidates still standing care about facts, or the Jones Act at all??
[QUOTE=Rafterman;183151]I’m going to come back to this thread in November. Just to laugh at the fucking dumbass remarks people made.[/QUOTE]
Do you have some kind of cunt reversal machine or something? You could probably make a fortune to selling those!
[QUOTE=Colston1285;183167]Do you have some kind of cunt reversal machine or something? You could probably make a fortune to selling those![/QUOTE]
Haha, so fucking clever. See you in November. Wanna put money on it?
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;183148]No swimming pool but it appears the tee for the 13th hole on the nearby golf course is right outside his back door.[/QUOTE]
living in a posh golf course community but doesn’t even know how to swing a club! I do believe he does know how to poke a pointy stick though.
anyway, in a month that lush life of leisure all comes to an end. His house is under offer pending a May closing after which our hansom playboy drillionaire goes to live aboard his new megayacht!
[QUOTE=ombugge;183166]I’m not the only one that doesn’t know apparently: http://www.forbes.com/2010/07/06/tax-havens-delaware-bermuda-markets-singapore-belgium.html
By the way, I’m NOT Anti-American. I AM anti-hypocrisy no matter from which source, or country.
All I do is counter untrue statements with facts. How can facts be anti-anything??[/QUOTE]
So Delaware makes the list because it has a lot of money following through it, that doesn’t prove anything. From my understanding Delaware has a lot if pro corporation laws (like making it very hard or impossible to do a “hostile takeover” and probably low corporate taxes) to get the big Corps to incorporate there. That article doesn’t give any indication that Delaware makes it easier to hide money than anywhere else in this country.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;183171]So Delaware makes the list because it has a lot of money following through it, that doesn’t prove anything. From my understanding Delaware has a lot if pro corporation laws (like making it very hard or impossible to do a “hostile takeover” and probably low corporate taxes) to get the big Corps to incorporate there. That article doesn’t give any indication that Delaware makes it easier to hide money than anywhere else in this country.[/QUOTE]
Just thought I’d add that you are correct. Delaware had a history for business and it has continued to this day. It’s not some tax haven, it’s just got attractive laws for a business. Just like registering a trailer in the state of Maine.
I’m glad that poor bastard is finally living his dreams. With the oilfield going tits up God knows he needed to catch a break 
[QUOTE=ombugge;183143]Are you sure nobody does??[/QUOTE]
I believe MSC (Mediterranean Shipping Company) utilizes Nassau, Bahamas as a hub. Don’t think this is a shady way around the Jones Act though, only a way for them to combine freight
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;183174]I’m glad that poor bastard is finally living his dreams. With the oilfield going tits up God knows he needed to catch a break ;)[/QUOTE]
to which he says…PHUCK EWE!
[QUOTE=The Commodore;183177]I believe MSC (Mediterranean Shipping Company) utilizes Nassau, Bahamas as a hub. Don’t think this is a shady way around the Jones Act though, only a way for them to combine freight[/QUOTE]
I agree. I believe MSC is using Feeders to bring containers to/from US ports for transshipment to foreign destinations, which is totally acceptable and rational, since it allow smaller US ports access to near-direct shipment to “anywhere” by the new Mega ships that is too big to call at any Gulf or East Coast ports as yet: http://freeportcontainerport.com/hello-world/
PSA International is in the process of developing their Container hub on Cuba to become a major transshipment point: http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/162455/drewry-cubas-mariel-terminal-could-become-caribbean-transhipment-hub/
If this and other Hubs in the region is used to carry containers between US ports, would it be in legal breach of the Jones Act, or just seen to be?
Even if the containers were physically discharged and re-loaded on a different Feeder, the answer to the last is probably yes.
Not so sure about the first. Especially if the paperwork was also changed it may circumvent the Jones Act?
The need for transshipment may not last forever, as US Ports are gearing up for the new Panama Canal and increasing their capacity: http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/144175/drewry-north-america-needs-bigger-automated-terminals/
Any Comments.
In your scenario are they clearing customs in the foreign transshipment port or even being unpacked and repackaged? Either way if the product isn’t undergoing some sort of change, like refining or manufacture into a new product the companies know that it won’t fly with US Customs.
[QUOTE=ombugge;183188]
If this and other Hubs in the region is used to carry containers between US ports, would it be in legal breach of the Jones Act, or just seen to be?
Any Comments.[/QUOTE]
What are you trying to figure out? I personally think your proposition is largely only academic. By the way first you say you are wondering about bulk and tankers but now about containers. According to MARAD there are 24 US flag Jones Act eligible container ships. Most I am guessing are used for CONUS to PR or Hawaii or Alaska trade, I dont know for sure but I do not think there is much container feeder traffic between CONUS ports (said “not too much” not “not any” for all nit pickers). Why? Trucks and trains. Its cheaper to put the container on a chassis or a rail car and drive it from anywhere in CONUS than it is to load it on a ship in GOM as you propose and bring it to the US east coast. By the way many factories have been moved to Mexico so even foreign flag carriers are competing with trucks and trains to ship a box from Mexico to US east coast. Dont know the size of that trade but I suspect they still cant beat over land shipments. (think someone is already running a rail car ferry between Mexico and US GOM though).
There are only 3 US flag Jones Act eligible dry bulk ships. I dont think this is because of the cost of Jones Act shipping. That is probably just the size of the market. Not a whole lot of grain being shipped GOM to US east coast. Probably some coal and the sulfur trade. Maybe someone else on the forum knows what they are doing?
There are 48 US Flag Jones Act eligible tankers. They seem to be meeting demand for coastwise shipments of petroleum products. The extra handling you propose for bulk liquid cargoes would seem on the surface to only add to the cost even if you incorporate the lower costs foreign flag tanker and the increased risks and schedule impacts. The US flag Jones Act fleet also has a pipeline industry to compete with as would any contorted foreign flag carrier scheme. East coast refineries already get their crude by pipeline, foreign flag tankers importing it and now rail cars as well.
Any case for developing a US short sea industry of any size would depend on big economic factors like doing something about the structure of the harbor maintenance fee ( Ref), wages to be sure but also altruistic notions like cutting down on air pollution especially in NE US by getting thousands (millions?) of trucks off the highways. Not to mention the cost of repairing our roads for these trucks to wreck again. Yeah, yeah I know trucks have their own fees to pay but I wonder how that stacks up on ton-mile basis and if that is really enough to maintain our roads and bridges? If trucks are cheaper and in the absence of any hard law to reduce truck traffic the cheaper mode will win out. I’m sure the pro-truck lobby has their own politicians in their pockets too so good luck with that.
There is room for a real discussion about how Jones Act eligible ships, MSP, VISA and VTA programs all currently are set up and add up to a maritime policy or the lack of one but I suspect shipping via Cuba (or anywhere else for that matter) will not have any big impact on the industry. Shipping to/from Cuba even less. Other than geographic proximity why would a shipper select a US flag carrier over a cheaper foreign flag one to ship something to Cuba?
These ship numbers above are for self propelled vessels 1000 GT and above. Reference: US Flag Fleet Good summary on last two pages.
The shitbox energy enterprise had been trading intermittently, not sure what and if it still is. Self unloading bulk carrier. Coal, she was set up to burn the stuff for propulsion as far as I know. There’s really no domestic market for bulk cargo in large ship sized quantities as far as I can tell. Plenty of barges moving products to one port or another to consolidate loads though.
We haven’t been seeing her as often but she runs a lot between the Norfolk harbor coal piers and Brayton Pt. I’ve also seen her on marine traffic going between Electro-Coal in LA and TECO big bend in Tampa.
Obama’s war on coal might do her in.