Socialized Welfare


#21

Many of us have explained it ad nauseam. Now you’re just being obtuse.

Why did Germans line up behind the Reich? Why do people smoke when they know it’s no good for them? Why do women stay in abusive relationships? Why do trained tigers perform in a circus?

Basically the same reasons.


#22

OK, let me take on this one by one:
Why do some Americans do the same mistake now as the Germans in 1930’s?
They smoke because they have become addicted and are too weak to quit, even though they know the harm it does. (I’m a reformed heavy smoker. Smoke free for over 25 years)
Many reasons, but some because they are economically dependent and lack a social security net.
This last one is hard to explain, but probably similar to the one above.

Now is your turn to tell what you think is the “basically same reason” and what it has to do with health care??


#23


#24

Several years ago, I was have a conversation with a Snowbird Couple from Toronto, they are very close to a family member.

So, the six month rule came up (Canadians losing their Health Care of they spend more than 180 days out of Country). I asked them when they would be headed home as I knew they had been down in Florida for quite a while. They said not to worry as they did not have to worry about that rule.

I had to ask why they did not have to worry as just about every Canadian Snowbird that I know pays very close attention to the number of days they have been gone. When I asked they said we have different insurance. So, I asked, so did you buy different or supplemental insurance? Their surprised me, they said, “No we both worked for the Government so we have different and better insurance which does not matter how long they leave the Country”.

So, there you have it, people love to talk about how wonderful our northern neighbors have it when it comes to Health Insurance and maybe they do. I guess I should not have been surprised that people in their government have better coverage much like here in the states.

If a Country wants to go with Nationalized Health Care, than EVERYONE goes on the same plan, NO exemptions! If someone wants “extra” coverage, then they have to pay for it out of their pockets and not be a benefit of working in Government!


#25

In countries with free and universal health care everybody can choose to buy private insurance, or employer can be generous enough to pay for their employees. The Canadian Government is obviously then such a generous employer.

What is so difficult for us foreigners to understand is WHY does the average working stiff in America think they are better off paying more for less, as proven by the facts that not only does the US Government spend more on health care than anywhere else (in real terms and in % of GDP) but the individual do too

The answer may lay here:

If everybody is afraid to admit they are “working stiff” (even to themselves) it is bound to be difficult to create a “workers paradise” for ALL.

There are more to it than that of course. Here is an article in Quartz not so long ago:

Which countries have and have not free and/or universal health care? Depends on you definition I suppose, but here is a Wikipedia article, with a map and list of what the various countries have:


#26

People (and tigers) can be manipulated. If people can be tricked to take up smoking, or if they can be convinced it’s best for their country to murder millions of people, or if they can be convinced its in their children’s best interest to be beaten and abused then there is no end to what people can’t be convinced to do by those who are intent to do it.

We know our healthcare system sucks. But it’s current condition is very profitable to those who can manipulate the population to continue to profit from it. So they divide and conquer. Some they terrorize with ‘government death pannels’ (even though insurance companies regularly decide on cost limits to medical care which results in death). Some they offend with ‘freeloading welfare queens’ (even as a poor, single mom already gets free medical care via Medicaid and emergency room visits). And so forth.

Different strokes to manipulate different folks. Age old methods. Free bread and a colosseum. Same thing.


#27

Countries with “free”… whatever. NOTHING is free.


#28

From the linked Wikipedia page:


#29

No one gets turned down when they really need medical help as someone else mentioned so we already have a bastardized universal healthcare system. The working stiff pays for it but who can best manage it?
Do we want to continue pouring trillions of dollars into the pockets of health insurance companies and big pharma or do we want to raise taxes and have the government mismanage it.
Granted, Americans hate income taxes. They weren’t even imposed until a hundred years ago.
On the other hand, the unchecked greed of the politicians gorging themselves at big pharma’s opioid trough while turning a blind eye at the carnage they were creating should be proof enough that the current system is out of control.
Maybe it’s time to consider single payer. Of course, turning complete management of healthcare system over to the government may not change the game much since our politicians play on both teams.


#30

Not Free…


#31

We Americans should all thank President FDR for starting the welfare program.


#32

Medicare is not a free welfare program. Each employee of every age pays a Medicare tax of 1.9% of wage income, and each employer pays a matching 1.9%, totaling 3.8% of gross wages.

All employees pay for it, but only people age 65 and older actually receive Medicare benefits.

There are a lot of things that Medicare does not cover: prescription drugs, dental, vision, hearing aids, and a long list of specific medical treatments. That is why most people on Medicare also buy a private Medicare Supplement policy. A good supplement policy costs about $300 per month.

If everyone at every age received Medicare, the Medicare tax would increase. I have not tried to do any calculations, but I expect that the tax would rise to 5% to the employee and 5% to employers, totaling 10% in order to cover everyone. If we had Medicare for all, Most of the other medical welfare programs could be eliminated with significant tax savings.


#33

I thought Obama gave them a waiver on that?


#34

From NPR:

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/04/12/523335954/what-happens-to-a-congressmans-health-insurance-if-obamacare-goes-down

Under the Affordable Care Act, members of the U.S. House of Representatives, the Senate and their office staffs who want employer coverage generally have to buy it on the health insurance exchange. Before the ACA passed in 2010, they were eligible to be covered under the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program. (People working for congressional committees who are not on a member’s office staff may still be covered under FEHBP.)

The members of Congress and their staffs choose from among 57 gold plans from four insurers sold on the DC Health Link’s small business marketplace this year.

Approximately 11,000 are enrolled, according to Adam Hudson, a spokesperson for the exchange. The government pays about three-quarters of the cost of the premium, and workers pay the rest. They aren’t eligible for federal tax credits that reduce the size of insurance premiums.


#35

If there was an exemption it was temporary and has expired.


#36

That’s good. Congress should have to live with what it provides for the people it supposedly represents.


#37

That is the problem, congress represents the biggest campaign contributors, not “the people.”


#38

No it is not “Free” as in cost free, but if you pay your taxes it is “free” to the user of health care and other services.

In the US you have lower personal income tax then most other developed countries, but higher Company tax.But is that a reality or just a myth??:

If you add up all taxes, Federal, State and even County tax and contribution to Medicare + the cost of your/your family’s health insurance and pension fund, you come pretty close, if not surpass, what the average European pay in taxes.
The difference is that in most other developed countries all those thing, plus free education and other benefits are paid for through taxes.

It is also a known and documented fact that most large US Corporations don’t pay the full 35% Tax. There are a number of loop holes that enable them to evade taxes, fully legally.
As does most of the high earners in the upper Income Tax brackets. Only the Middle-class and working stiffs actually carry the full burden.
No, this is NOT me being anti-American. go check it for yourself if you don’t believe me.

If you don’t like the idea that some “Welfare Queen” that may need it, gets some of “your money”, but don’t mind that fat cat CEOs and Wall Street speculators get rich from it, then look at the Singapore way. (See post # 14 above)

With that system the taxes are low and monies in your CPF and Medisave account is yours, but can only be used for approved expenses, such as paying your mortgage, invest in shares and funds, pay for additional Health Insurance etc. If there are monies in your accounts when you die, (or migrate) they go to your estate.

The drawback is that you can only use what you have on your accounts. If you get chronically sick or incapacitated at an early age and don’t have additional Health Insurance, the funds may expire before you do.

But the “Nanny State” in Singapore have made sure that nearly all Singaporeans is insured through a system called Medishield, with premium pay from your Medisave account:


The problem is than that you don’t trust the Government, or any Statutory Board under Government auspices, to be efficient and non-corrupt.
Well, I cannot help you there, other than to say; change your Government through democratic means, or move to somewhere that has a system to your liking.
(I can’t think of any suitable country with anarchy to meet those criteria off the cuff)


#39

I would like to see universal Medicare, myself. I’m a volunteer EMT now in my off time at home. I see a lot of people who are uninsured or under-insured and do things like space out blood glucose testing or ration pills, and end up with an exacerbation of their illness(es) that land them in the ER.

ER treatment is expensive. An ER tied up with preventable problems does not have the capacity for unavoidable emergencies. And it’s not there to dispense routine preventive care like well baby exams and so forth. The Emergency Room is there to stabilize very sick or injured persons, not to diagnose and treat a wide range of problems. That’s what a family physician and/or specialist is for.

The states that adopted expanded Medicare reported a lot of benefits, because those eligible consisted mainly of low-income working people who could now afford their insulin or blood pressure meds and did not miss nearly as much work as before.


#40

It would be interesting to see a full case study of these effects.