Socialized Welfare


#1

Continuing the discussion from "obscure" … 'Jones Act':

Ok, so to prevent a thread about the Jones Act from going any further off topic, I’ll do this over here in Scuttlebutt where it probably belongs…

No… I’m not a fan of the “Great Cheeto with the Tiny Hands”… I haven’t drunk the Kool-Aid… and I sure as heck don’t want somebody else paying for me. I’m the guy sitting over here “with my tinfoil hat” wanting my gay friends to be able to get married, shoot their guns, and grow their pot while I ask how the US made it a 137 years until 1913 without personal income tax and now can’t get their mitts off of the money I’ve earned to feed my family. I’m the guy that says “If I haven’t got the money to take care of myself and my family off the sweat of my own brow, then let me have the result I deserve.”

I take responsibility for myself… I take responsibility for my family. I have no personal responsibility for anyone I don’t choose personally to help. Is that anti-social? Probably. But America was built on unalienable rights to Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness. It doesn’t say Life, Liberty, and Happiness. Nobody promised anyone a free handout and rainbows and unicorns. You have to earn what you want.

Now does this conflict with the Jones Act at some level, yeah, probably. But I’m human, and not perfect. I also am the oddball American Mariner that thinks the Jones Act goes a bit too far with the US build requirement though.

Anyway, just my $0.02, since it seems that some can’t differentiate between Trump lovers and those that just want what our forefathers originally gave us.


#2

While I agree with that sentiment I don’t consider single payer health coverage a “free handout”. I’m not I’m favor of expanding welfare or having a universal basic income or anything, but at least Medicare for everyone. Then top tier employers can offer supplement plans that cover extras not covered by Medicare.

We pay for it anyway because the moms too poor to take their kid to a regular doctor take them to an emergency room at 10 times the cost and when they can’t pay the tax payers foot the bill. Or the crazy people that can’t afford psychiatrists and medicine end up in jail at tax payer expense.


#3

And here is my reply from that thread before it gets memoryholed by the overlords.

Meanwhile the left wing American worker is trying to figure out how to pay for the 300% premium increase on their Obamacare plan. If only they could’ve read it before it was passed. :thinking:


#4

What’s the point of a Nation if you are not going to pool your resources and share?

Given the proportion of “Christians” in USA, you have awfully cold society. One mistake and you are fucked.


#5

The badly US needs health care reform. There is no doubt about that. The US has by far the highest cost health care in the world. Three to five time more expensive than in most other countries. The quality of US health care ranks about 34th. In other words, the quality is pretty good, but not great. The insurance companies have far too much power over our health care decisions and limit the availability of too many effectively by costly treatments until after months of wasting time on ineffective cheaper treatments.

We need a major health care overhaul that improves patient and doctor control over treatment, reduces costs, makes costs more certain, and improves quality and promptness of effective treatment. We need to get away from a system that is controlled by insurance companies and badly regulated by 50 different states with different rules.

The US also needs to compete in the world economy. Job creating American businesses are at a tremendous competitive disadvantage against foreign companies that do not need to provide healthcare.

We need one consistent national government administered basic health care coverage plan for everyone in all 50 states that takes the cost burden off employers. We need a system that does not penalize creating employment and that does not encourage sending jobs offshore. We need a system that does not put American workers at a disadvantage in the global job market. No plan will perfect.

When you add up all the seniors on Medicare, all the poor people on Medicaid, and all the government employees and retirees, that is about 55 percent of the US population that is already getting government provided socialized medicine.

The large employers and their employees receive very generous health care subsidies that are paid for by all taxpayers.

People who buy individual plans, contract workers, small employers and their employees, in effect subsidize everyone else.

Hospitals must treat people without insurance and people that cannot, or will not, pay. We all have to pay higher health care prices to cover the cost of those who don’t pay.

Those of us who earn a good living and pay a lot of taxes, are already paying for everyone elses’s health care through higher cost insurance, fewer tax breaks, and higher health care costs.

We all really need a universal Medicare for all system, and it would save all of us money.

Yes, most of us will still need to spend hundreds of dollars per month for an additional private Medicare Supplement Insurance to get broader coverage and prompt quality care.

A phased in expansion of Medicare and phase out elimination of all the other government health programs is probably the most realistic approach.

Continuing as we are with existing healthcare financing and programs is not a viable option. Neither is denying care to people who cannot pay.

We need to bite the bullet and adopt true universal national healthcare and get healthcare administration and delivery costs under control


#6

I am ok with universal health care but if the government runs it, well, that is the problem.


#7

And the plan that applies to congress critters and their family should be exactly the same as the guy who works at Burger King. If people want a “better” plan they are free to purchase it privately.


#8

The diagram below illustrates the delicate relationship between corporate and labor in America. Please note the important role played by US Congress oversight committees in the background:

Sluch


#9

Would it be better if it was run by the Trump Group, or Wall street??


#10

In real life they would make sure the bitch paid for the experience.


#11

There’s a difference?


#12

And 400% profit margin for the insurance bosses and share holders.


#13

Health insurance CEOs need to feed their families too.


#14

If you don’t like to pay “Fat Cat” CEOs like this, or high returns to shareholders, or any “welfare queens” and is dead against anything that can be called “Socialism”, no matter how advantageous it would be for you, there is a third way.

I have posted about it before, but here it is again; The Singapore Way.

Here is a simple explanation of how it works:

And a more detailed and scholarly article:
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/.../affordableexcellence_chapter.pdf

The “left wing rag” New York Times appears to think the US could learn something from Singapore:


#15

LOL,funny and sad…


#16

I’m not really comfortable with government run anything, but given a choice between for profit health care administrators and for profit insurance companies or the government, I’ll take the government.

Medicare actually works more or less ok. The biggest problem is that many doctors will not accept Medicare patients. If everyone were on Medicare most doctors would have no choice. As long as you have the good supplemental insurance Medicare is ok.

It’s a program that is already up and running and would be easy to expand just by lowering the qualifying age in increments over a few years.


#17

If you are not confortable with the Government running anything, why have a Government at all???
If anarchy is your cup of tea, OK, have it your way and see if that is better. :sunglasses:

Jokes aside. Most countries have a mix of public and private Hospitals, Clinics, Doctors and Health Insurance.

Since Universal Health Care usually means that you have to que up, depending on the severity of your illness, some people take out private Health Insurance (or Employers offers it as an incentive)

There is also the misuse of the system, where people run to the A&E for any minor ailment, or to get a Doctor’s Certificate to take sick leave. This is attempted solved by having a system where individuals still need to meet a proportion of the costs from their own pocket. (Co-Pay in US terms?)

If it works in all other developed countries (and in many not so developed) why can’t it work in the US?
If Americans are unable to see the advantages and think it infringe on their freedom, then you deserve your lousy and costly system. But don’t complain you haven’t been told.


#18

I am very impressed with foreign healthcare.


#19

Still more cost effective than government run…


#20

Keep in mind that that already applies now.

All congressmen and their aids are required to buy ACA insurance on the Washington DC exchange.