So reality of the NEW KP is revealed for all to see


#1

this whole harassment issue was just smoke being blown up everybody’s asses…KP is becoming the mini me Annapolis it always wanted to be! USMMA midshipmen (and ladies) are spending their seayear on USN warships!

[B]Merchant Marine Cadets Help Navy Knock The Rust Off Sextants[/B]

September 10, 2016 by Editorial


Midshipman 2nd Class McKenna Henyon, a student at the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy, takes a sunline measurement aboard the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Benfold (DDG 65). Photo by Deven Leigh Ellis, USN)

By Commander Justin Harts, USN (USS Benfold) According to the definitive book on marine navigation familiar to most naval officers – “The American Practical Navigator” – navigation began the first time humans had to find their way home using some object that caught their eye. Marine navigation was born shortly afterwards when humans observed that some objects could support their weight on water, and for the last 6,000 to 8,000 years, humans have been navigating on water by following the movement of stars in the night sky.

So, you might be surprised that Navy Sailors are charting the moments of today’s most advanced warships using skills from the mid-1700s! There are as technology has become interwoven into our day-to-day lives, it’s important that we’re prepared to live without it if necessary. Several years ago, the Navy looked to our past to chart our future because basic techniques used to plot a ship’s position by observing the movement of the stars; planets, sun and moon are still as relevant to safe navigation at sea today as they were 200 years ago.

Celestial navigation was not formally taught to most naval officers during the last 15 years. Officer Candidate School did not teach it, Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps stopped teaching it in 2000, and the Naval Academy removed it from its curriculum in 2006. However, based on direction from former Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jonathan Greenert, celestial navigation has been reinstated into the navigation curriculum and is a requirement in the Officer Professional Core Competencies Manual at USNA. Being proficient at celestial navigation provides added redundancy to ensure that our ships can sail safely in any contingency. The academy resumed formal classroom instruction during the summer session of 2015, and the class of 2017 will be the first in many years to graduate with a basic knowledge of celestial navigation.

However, there is one group who never gave up their sextants – midshipmen at the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, New York. These midshipmen are still required to master the art of CELNAV in preparation to become officers in the Merchant Marine and Strategic Sealift Officers in the Navy.

When I learned Benfold would be sponsoring four midshipmen from Kings Point for our next patrol, celestial navigation was one of the first things I thought about. I’m pretty rusty, and while I talked a big game, I really wasn’t up to teaching the subject. So I challenged the mids to partner with Benfold’s quartermasters to see if they could successfully navigate the ship from Yokosuka, Japan, to Guam for Exercise Valiant Shield without using GPS or the ship’s inertial navigation systems. I sort-of expected some excuses, but they set to it like it was no big deal, fixing the ship’s position to within five nautical miles of our GPS solution on the first night using Mars and several stars. The next morning, they were on the bridge well before sunrise to plot morning stars, updating their position from the previous evening.

During the day’s work in navigation, Benfold bridge teams took morning sunlines to predict the ship’s position at noon and then calculated our latitude by observing the sun’s apogee at local apparent noon. They determined the ship’s laser ring gyro error by observing amplitudes and azimuths of the sun, moon and planets, determined our latitude by observing Polaris, and fixed our position by observing stars at sunrise and sunset.

By the end of the voyage, midshipmen and quartermasters were engaged in daily shootouts, competing for accuracy using nothing but a sextant, a stopwatch and some books originally written in the early 1800s.

It’s a big ocean and Guam is a pretty small target in relative terms. At roughly 33 miles long and 12 miles wide, Guam sits in the middle of an ocean that encompasses 60 million square miles, but they found it! All total, the voyage was 1,341 miles and the maximum cross track error they encountered was four miles – close enough to sight the island visually. Not bad considering the only modern technology they were allowed to use was a watch and pocket calculator.

Like any skill, practice makes perfect. Benfold, with the help of some midshipmen, is learning that what’s ‘old’ is new again and plotted its course successfully by following the movement of stars in the night sky. As the ship and crew prepare for Exercise Valiant Shield 2016, I am excited for the opportunity to continue practicing this nearly lost art and to mix some of the most high-tech tactics with some of the most ancient techniques to increase our combat edge as Benfold looks to the past to chart our future.

IS THERE IS A HUGE SHORTAGE OF NEW NAVAL OFFICERS THESE DAYS? THE NATION DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER GOODAMNED ANNAPOLIS! THE FIRST ONE IS EXPENSIVE ENOUGH AND TO TURN KP INTO A SOURCE OF NAVAL OFFICERS IS DISINGENUOUS AT BEST IF NOT DOWNRIGHT DECEITFUL!

.


#2

[QUOTE=c.captain;190250]this whole harassment issue was just smoke being blown up everybody’s asses…KP is becoming the mini me Annapolis it always wanted to be! USMMA midshipmen (and ladies) are spending their seayear on USN warships!

IS THERE IS A HUGE SHORTAGE OF NEW NAVAL OFFICERS THESE DAYS? THE NATION DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER GOODAMNED ANNAPOLIS! THE FIRST ONE IS EXPENSIVE ENOUGH AND TO TURN KP INTO A SOURCE OF NAVAL OFFICERS IS DISINGENUOUS AT BEST IF NOT DOWNRIGHT DECEITFUL![/QUOTE]

Oh I don’t know, didn’t you find this a heart warming tale? Where’d I put that hanky.


#3

[QUOTE=KPChief;190259]Oh I don’t know, didn’t you find this a heart warming tale? Where’d I put that hanky.[/QUOTE]

if I posted a photo of my thoughts about all this I would not just be banned for life from gCaptain, but likely would receive a loud knock on my door at 3am, get black bagged and hustled to some desolate place where nobody except my torturers would hear my screams


#4

Hey someone has to work to keep American Kidnapping and torture jobs. These jobs seem to all be going overseas these days.


#5

If KP really wants to be Mini-me-Annapolis that is fine with me. I suggest that the place be turned over to the DoD tomorrow, all the bills, all the management, all the training, and remove the licensing component, baby ensigns don’t need licenses to run Navy ships aground or burn up the propulsion plants.

I wonder if the admirals will be happy with their new bastard stepchild.


#6

[QUOTE=c.captain;190263]if I posted a photo of my thoughts about all this I would not just be banned for life from gCaptain, but likely would receive a loud knock on my door at 3am, get black bagged and hustled to some desolate place where nobody except my torturers would hear my screams[/QUOTE]

Yeah please let’s not go there again.


#7

[QUOTE=catherder;190409]Yeah please let’s not go there again.[/QUOTE]

but God above knows now much I want to and how I am tortured by the fact that I can’t lest our omnipotent overlords crush me beneath their gigantic boot!

but with the Almighty as my witness…I shall have my day!

or not…


#8

Come on man! They got within 4 miles of Guam. That’s gooder than chicken! It’s pretty sad when some midshipmen from a civilian academy goes to a naval warship and teaches the QMs how to do Celnav.


#9

Regarding Snowflake sailing on a warship instead of a merchant vessel (they are cadets at what is called the merchant marine academy after all) I think they should have to enlist in the Navy and assume the same obligation of a Naval Academy middy as defined in milpersman 1531-020.

WTF is with civilian snowflakes riding around on active warships? If they aren’t good enough to get into Annapolis why are they taking up space that should be occupied by USNA midshipmen?

The Navy is not the merchant marine, snowflake is not a midshipman, if snowflake doesn’t get a license based on merchant marine training and seatime then sail on it for X many years then snowflake needs to pay back the costs in full. If snowflake wants to ride a warship, snowflake needs to join the Navy.


#10

[QUOTE=Steamer;190433]Regarding Snowflake sailing on a warship instead of a merchant vessel (they are cadets at what is called the merchant marine academy after all) I think they should have to enlist in the Navy and assume the same obligation of a Naval Academy middy as defined in milpersman 1531-020.

WTF is with civilian snowflakes riding around on active warships? If they aren’t good enough to get into Annapolis why are they taking up space that should be occupied by USNA midshipmen?

The Navy is not the merchant marine, snowflake is not a midshipman, if snowflake doesn’t get a license based on merchant marine training and seatime then sail on it for X many years then snowflake needs to pay back the costs in full. If snowflake wants to ride a warship, snowflake needs to join the Navy.[/QUOTE]

It sounds like perfect training to go work in the office of a tugboat company to me.


#11

[QUOTE=Traitor Yankee;190456]It sounds like perfect training to go work in the office of a tugboat company to me.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the taxpayer gets nailed for (according to the ringknocker mommy association) somewhere between $259k and $285k per snowflake. That blizzard of public cash certainly ought to produce a pretty good tugboat office weenie.

There is an upside though, snowflake can teach the other paper pushers how to get a noon sight on the parking lot. That should put a whole new, politically correct and harassment free, slant on the office nooner.


#12

[QUOTE=Steamer;190433]Regarding Snowflake sailing on a warship instead of a merchant vessel (they are cadets at what is called the merchant marine academy after all) I think they should have to enlist in the Navy and assume the same obligation of a Naval Academy middy as defined in milpersman 1531-020.

WTF is with civilian snowflakes riding around on active warships? If they aren’t good enough to get into Annapolis why are they taking up space that should be occupied by USNA midshipmen?

The Navy is not the merchant marine, snowflake is not a midshipman, if snowflake doesn’t get a license based on merchant marine training and seatime then sail on it for X many years then snowflake needs to pay back the costs in full. If snowflake wants to ride a warship, snowflake needs to join the Navy.[/QUOTE]

KP is indeed becoming one immense LIE and DECEIT upon the taxpayer…everything indicated here is that the school has completely become irrelevant in its continued existence. NOTHING it purports to be or to provide is now in any way valid. it exists only to exist and be that PHUCKING PHONEY PRAUDULENT PHIEFDOM.

THIS WHOLE THING IS HIDEOUS BEYOND WORDS! WHY CANNOT LEADERS IN GOVERNMENT DO THE RIGHT THING AND KILL THIS RIDICULOUS MONSTER THAT EATS SUCH MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF MONEY?


#13

[QUOTE=c.captain;190479] WHY CANNOT LEADERS IN GOVERNMENT DO THE RIGHT THING … ?[/QUOTE]

Now that is the rhetorical question of the century!

“The right thing” is not even in the political vocabulary. The group that represents snowflake and the institution has no interest in promoting the USMM, just KP. They could care less about the relevance of the institution or the value of its product to the taxpayer. They are no more invested in the USMM than MARAD. Where are MARAD and the ringknocker club when traitors like McCain stand up for foreign flag shipping owned by his campaign contributors?

KP has been a welfare camp since 1945. It only serves MARAD parasites and a few well-heeled campaign contributors who profit from selling American taxpayers down the drain in order to line their own pockets.

Close KP and sell off the property. Proceeds of that sale should go to a training fund for currently licensed mariners.

Purge MARAD leadership, replace necessary positions (that alone should cut overhead costs by multi millions annually) with management professionals overseen by industry experts rather than appointed lackeys who are controlled by lobbyists for foreign interests. Rename the organization the US Merchant Marine Administration. The sole purpose of the new organization will be the promotion of the US merchant marine and its domestic supporting industries. The USMMA logo can be repurposed nicely with minor text changes and the money saved can be applied to the Mariner Training Fund.

Remove all mariner documentation, licensing and ship inspection oversight from the USCG. The new Merchant Marine Administration will employ trained and experienced industry professionals to perform those roles.


#14

[QUOTE=c.captain;190417]but God above knows now much I want to and how I am tortured by the fact that I can’t lest our omnipotent overlords crush me beneath their gigantic boot!

but with the Almighty as my witness…I shall have my day!

or not…[/QUOTE]

Just say no. Just say no. Just say no.

If I have to fly out there and confiscate your laptop…


#15

[QUOTE=catherder;190499]Just say no. Just say no. Just say no.

If I have to fly out there and confiscate your laptop…[/QUOTE]

Mother has spoken!


#16

If anyone writes a post critical of KP (or for that matter a critcal post in general) and the post includes, for example, a selfie “dick pic” that post (or more likley the whole thread) will get deleted.

In that case the claim that the post was deleted because the viewpoint expressed was censored is nonsense.


#17

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;190514]If anyone writes a post critical of KP (or for that matter a critcal post in general) and the post includes, for example, a selfie “dick pic” that post (or more likley the whole thread) will get deleted.

In that case the claim that the post was deleted because the viewpoint expressed was censored is nonsense.[/QUOTE]

what on earth are you talking about? who posted a selfies “dick pic”? who claimed being censored here?

I for one am staying away from criticizing any KP midshipmen or ladies and strictly staying with the hypocrisy of the school itself which is an abomination against the US taxpayer and all maritime officer trainees who have to pay for their educations which a very small select few do not and then do not even become maritime officers.

KP is a STOOPID place run by self serving people protecting their precious fiefdom there and NOTHING MORE!


#18

I recently joined this forum and after browsing the KP section have found there’s a faction within this forum that is vehemently anti Kings Point. I agree there are flaws with the school (primarily that there are not enough actual maritime people in their leadership and at MARAD). But on the whole I am very proud to be an alumni and think it is a great institution. There are good and bad mariners from all the maritime schools. It’s the individual who ultimately determines their worth, not the institution. It’s your right have an issue with the school but don’t fault the midshipmen for taking advantage of a free education.

That being said after reading a few forums it seems the main arguments against KP are

  1. It’s an outdated institution that produces licensed mariners at a cost much higher cost than the state schools thus is a waste of taxpayer money.
  2. It’s just another commissioning source for the military so have the DOD pay for it and put the freed up funds to better use.

I 100% agree that the cost per student is much higher than their respective state maritime counterparts. Especially when you factor in that the state maritime students pay for a good portion of their education. I also agree that KP is a huge commissioning source for the DOD. It’s actually the second biggest commissioning source of officers for the Navy and Coast Guard after USNA and USCG respectively. In a perfect world were the U.S. flag, deep sea merchant fleet was numerous, prosperous and self sustaining there would be no need for the school. But the reality is that the only thing keeping our deep sea merchant fleet alive is the U.S Government via the Jones Act, the MSP and a few other programs. As much as we like to talk about jobs and the economy the primary reason the government does this is strictly for national defense. Somewhere in the Pentagon a bunch of admirals and generals are telling the President and Congress we need X number of ships and X number of mariners to ensure our military can do it’s job. As much as the state schools can produce licensed mariners in the numbers needed, this is dependent on people voluntarily participating in the license program. Additionally there is no way to force them to sail after graduation. Every year KP graduates 200 licensed mariners WHO can all be FORCED (thus the military commission) to sail if need be. Ultimately the only way the government and military can GUARENTEE we have an adequate pool of mariners, independent of other sources, is by keeping KP open. This is the same reason why all the military branches maintain their respective academies despite ROTC being able to produce the required number of officers for a cheaper cost. In the world of defense spending where the cost of a single ship or aircraft can cost many billions of dollars the measly 75 or so million it cost a year to maintain the academy is a drop in the bucket. Although I personally believe there are many more benefits and services KP provides for this country when it comes down to it the above is the primary reason why the academy is in operation and will continue to be for many years to come. As an FYI I got this info from a Naval Officer who works In the Strategic Mobility and Seabasing Branch at the Pentagon


#19

I wouldn’t say I’m Vehemently against KP, but I disagree. The money would be much better spent at State Schools. MMR(SSOP) can ensure we have qualified mariners. There are other more cost effective ways to ensure this and require state academy grads and hawsepipers to maintain unlimited licenses. The 75 million distributed to the state schools and/or as scholarship/grant/incentive funding directly to students is much better. I don’t think most of us here seriously thinks anything less of the actual KP mids. Like any crew member they have to prove their worth. I think most of us judge people as individuals. You should be proud of your accomplishments. KP is an inefficient institution though that is a diversion from where that money could go to better achieve its goal.


#20

LI Domer
The point of my original post was never to debate the need for KP. I know everyone has their opinions and a forum post isn’t likely to change that. It was meant to be more of a factual statement. You’re probably right that only funding the state schools would save a decent amount of money and I agree that the school (primarily MARAD) is eneffecient but show me a federal agency that isn’t. I believe you and most people think of KP from the perspective of a mariner with the belief that KP’s sole purpose is to support the commercial maritime industry. Of course this is what it does at face value but its most basic purpose is to cater to a niche military requirement of providing personnel to man merchant ships in wartime or national crisis. We’re just one of many cogs in a big machine. Some of the most ardent supporters of KP aren’t shipping executives or businessmen. They’re admirals and generals who don’t’ know or care that much about the merchant marine insofar in that it’s something they need to effectively wage war. Even if you could save say 30 million a year out of the original 75 by getting rid of KP, that amount of money is nothing compared to the hundreds of billions we spend a year on defense. The extra 30 million is a small convience fee they pay to have 100% control over the process. I know I kind of rambled on here but basically what I want to get across is that KP is a military requirement, not a commercial or economic one.