Our grand and glorious US Navee...what a bunch!


#21

[QUOTE=kf5er;140994]Ooh sorry ‘top contributor’ didn’t know yer skin was so thin. Discussing is what I was doing, the problem seems to be
I was totally against the dribble ya’ll been posting about the Navy. Some of it is true, I know that, but to keep on hammering
and hammering seems kinda sick. Ya’ll can dish it out, but don’t seem to be able to take it.

Retired Chief U.S. NAVY[/QUOTE]

You are right “Retired Chief U.S. Navy” it is sick but its not the hammering that is sick but the waste and incompetence. We can dish it out and take it because we make no excuses for idiocy in our own ranks. We are our own worse critics. God help the fool that bends a fender in some crowded water way! We also bitch and write letters to our representatives because they impact our license and livelihood. Sadly, we are a shrinking group of concerned experienced citizens that knows how shipyards and ships should and could be run We have worked outside the gilded USA and seen how things can be done.We hate the fact that in a conventional war we know the people of Finland, Korea, Romania or Singapore would clean our clocks with their ability to put out ships. The waste the US Navy tolerates is treasonous and abetted by their retirees in DC now working for the contractors and lobbyists who are raping the citizens of the USA. . We will continue to hammer, write letters, bitch and moan. It is our nature. Without sick bastards like us the status quo will just continue. It probably will anyway but by God they will know we aren’t happy and there is always the chance we will show up with torches and pitchforks.


#22

Something to remember that Tengineer1 touched on - We work(ed) for the Politicians

On MORE than one occasion has a Service said “we don’t need that” ONLY to be told yer getting it anyway (Command building in Afghanistan for one). As I recall and I do not provide reference, NAVY wanted another BRAC to help cut costs and were resoundingly denied.

Better yet, in response or perhaps as an addendum to C.Captain’s post:

[B]Navy Cancelled New Destroyer Flight Due to Ohio Replacement Submarine Costs[/B]

The looming hit to the shipbuilding budget from the Navy’s plan to build 12 new nuclear ballistic missile submarines resulted in the cancellation of a fourth flight of Arleigh Burke destroyers (DDG-51) as well as the controversial plan to layup 11 Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruisers (CG-47), the navy’s chief shipbuilder told a congressional panel in a recent hearing on cruiser and destroyer modification.

The shifts in the Navy’s large surface combatants come as the $100 billion bill for the 12 new boomers begin to take up more and more of the Navy’s shipbuilding budget — leaving less and less for other shipbuilding programs.

From 2021 to 2035, the service’s estimated shipbuilding budget will rise to about $24 billion a year at the peak of the Ohio replacement program, almost double the service’s traditional yearly outlays.

One of the largest future problems for the surface forces is how to coordinate the air defense of the carrier strike group — a role built into the aging Ticonderogas and not a native function of existing Arleigh Burkes.

“We need an air defense commander with deploying battle groups,” Sean Stackley, Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Research, Development & Acquisition (RDA), told the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Seapower and Projection Forces in a Thursday hearing.
“11 carriers, 11 carrier battle groups, 11 air defense commanders.”

Now, the air defense commander is the skipper of accompanying cruiser. The ship’s combat information center (CIC) has room for consoles and a staff of three to four for the carrier protection role.

“Our cruisers are commanded by a captain with a more senior staff on the ship and more individuals dedicated to the planning and execution of the air defense mission for the carrier strike group,” Rear Adm. Thomas Rowden, the outgoing director of surface warfare (N96) for the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations (OPNAV) told the panel.
“That’s really how we drive that requirement for the cruisers and the air defense commander on the ship.”

Until the current budget, the follow-on to the air defense commander role was to be filled with a new flight of Arleigh Burke that would be built to fill the air defense commander role, Stackley said.

“We need to recapitalize those [cruisers] with a future ship class, either an upgrade to a DDG-51 — a Flight IV type of ship — or a cruiser,” Sean Stackley, Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Research, Development & Acquisition (RDA), told the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Seapower and Projection Forces in a Thursday hearing.
“We do not have the ability to do that during the period of construction of the Ohio replacement.”

Including an air defense commander capability on the upcoming Flight III version of the Arleigh Burke is unlikely given the limited margin remaining in the ship once the planned Air and Missile Defense Radar is installed, USNI News understands.

Absent a Flight IV and the next future surface combatant not due to start construction until 2028, the Navy wants to keep the cruisers that it has.

In February, the Navy proposed to layup half of its cruiser force in in a cost savings plan that would preserve the air defense component of the carrier strike group (CSG) and reduce manpower and operations and maintenance cost of the total 22 ship force to the tune of $4.7 billion.

The 11 ships would all go in layup by Fiscal Year 2016 and would come out of layup one at a time, receive a modernization upgrade to extend the cruisers into the 2040s and likewise the cruiser air defense commander role.

The plan has met resistance in Congress. Last month the House Appropriations Committee limited instructed the Navy to sideline no more than two Ticonderogas a year starting in Fiscal Year 2016 and have no more than six in lay up at any one given time.

[I]The take away is AGAIN, Big NAVY made yet another decision to save money only to be thwarted by the hacks in DC.

I FULLY concur that LCS is a BAD program and I too am a Retired Navy Chief[/I]


#23

C.Captain, your bashing of the U.S. Navy is quite inappropriate and short-sighted. I agree that there’s room for change in the Navy, but there are a great deal of extraordinary people, such as my fiancee, who serve in our Navy and families that sacrifice a great deal to support them.

If you’re trying to make a point or have any sort of influence on the subject, do so with respect to those who are serving, have served and their families. If not, keep your comments to yourself.


#24

Thanks Rob.

The loudest protesters are usually the ones that have never worn our nations uniform. Nor have they cared enough to do so.
Everyday i hear at least one complaint about the Military. I ask one simple question “how long did you wear our nations uniform”. That more than none gets the conversation stopped.
And that also goes to the ONE that puts down our Nations Sea Service the United States Navy. It is your politicians that you have elected that makes every decision for the service. Retirees and medicare recipients are the ones to blame because according to Gallup AARP has one of if not the largest single voting Group and by history tends to re elect the same incumbents over and over and over.

Thats all,
Bamatug
1SG retired
United States Army


#25

Well, this thread got a little heated, didn’t it? And there’s a lot of good comments.

It really all boils down to the idiots we elect to public office and keep in public office. The Congress we have now is one of the worst in history. They have done nothing but drag their feet on everything and now the Speaker wants to sue the President over the Affordable Care Act. How much is that circus going to cost? Meanwhile, the money the President requested to shore up Immigration and Customs Enforcement may not get approved before these bozos take off for summer recess. They are more interested in playing a game of one-upmanship than in taking care of the Nation’s business. It’s disgraceful.

It’s an election year, folks. Make sure you get out and vote no matter how hopeless it may seem, and send some of these jokers home.


#26

[ATTACH]3990[/ATTACH]

Cup of coffee Ccaptain?


#27

[QUOTE=rob;141089]C.Captain, your bashing of the U.S. Navy is quite inappropriate and short-sighted. I agree that there’s room for change in the Navy, but there are a great deal of extraordinary people, such as my fiancee, who serve in our Navy and families that sacrifice a great deal to support them.

If you’re trying to make a point or have any sort of influence on the subject, do so with respect to those who are serving, have served and their families. If not, keep your comments to yourself.[/QUOTE]

Rob, I disagree unequivocally and my comments on the US Navy of 2014 are supported by documented studies by the GAO. My opinions are based on those findings that the LCS vessels are overpriced and underperforming. That senior US Naval officers and civilian administrators accept newbuild vessels delivered with flaws needing immediate correction is further evidence that the service has lost a key ability and the taxpayer is the loser. A hideously deficient Congress only makes the farce that much more painful to endure as shipbuilding priorities are skewed to political influence. If you try to tell me that NAVSEA is a competent organization in their mission, I will debate you till I am dead and buried and for a while after that even.

Regarding individuals in the Navy and other branches of the US military I can only say that I do not make any statement now nor previously that they are all incompetent at their duties and I am sure there are many who are brilliant leaders. My blanket commentary is towards the organization as a whole. Again, if you believe the Navy of 2014 has the same warfighting and shipbuilding abilities as the USN of decades past I will also debate you till I am a rotting corpse (which I know Bamatug is praying to happen everyday but he will be waiting a long time…got a lot of fight left in these old bones yet!)

So regarding yourself, your fiance and all who have served in active duty I pick no personal battle and please do not label this or any other threads in which I criticize of the Navy as some personal attack in an attempt to try to make me stop voicing my opinions. It is exactly that same “if you don’t support the US military 100% then you are not a good American” narrow minded call that has allowed our military to become what it has which is a fiscal disaster zone. A true good American citizen demands a government and military that is responsible to the people who fund it which is just about everyone of us here who pays a federal income tax. Added to that, the US Merchant Marine remains an unofficial 5th military branch gives all of us here who are merchant mariners a voice in such matters as naval shipbuilding which should not be stifled even though you are an administrator of this site. I may not have served in active duty but I have carried US military equipment to our forces overseas both during Operations Desert Shield/Storm and in years afterwards. I have been entrusted by the US Navy with many hundreds of millions of weapons in a ship under my command. I delivered those weapons as per my sailing orders as any active duty US Navy commanding officer would also be expected to do without incident, intact and read y for immediate use. Don’t belittle my US merchant vessel service as somehow less than naval service. Merchant mariners do a job our military forces demand whether it is done wearing a naval uniform or not. To this you must agree or risk the peril of alienating a large constituency of this forum including yours truly.

So I say to you Rob, this not fair? I think it is and so say good night to you sir. I will use lowercase letters as I do respect your own knowledge and commentary you bring to this site. I am older that you, John or Mike, but do not consider myself your better… Thank you.

.


#28

[QUOTE=salt’n steel;141106][ATTACH]3990[/ATTACH]

Cup of coffee Ccaptain?[/QUOTE]

rather stoopid for your image to be invisible. It lacks impact…don’t you agree?

you should really learn how to attach one so it can be seen…I can teach you if you’d like?

and since you asked, thanks but it is a bit late for me to drink coffee but I’ll take a Scotch on the rocks…


#29

[QUOTE=Bamatug;141096]Thats all,
Bamatug
1SG retired
United States Army[/QUOTE]

and a HOO-AH to you…

am I supposed to be impressed?

yawn, scratch, yawn again…


#30

[QUOTE=Bamatug;141096]The loudest protesters are usually the ones that have never worn our nations uniform. Nor have they cared enough to do so. [/QUOTE]

I guess you have missed the sight and sound of a few million vets marching and protesting loudly against the waste of lives and treasure, and lies by our government and military. Ever heard of the Bonus March? They were all vets.

It is incredibly insulting to many of us who wore the uniform to keep hearing the jingoistic vomitus of the “thank you for your service” crowd. You and they are poster children for the shocking success of the propaganda campaign that was created to stop the anti-war and anti-military movement that gained such strength after the Vietnam debacle.

The success of that campaign is one of the reasons the nation is nearly as broke as the Soviet Union was and why the population is afraid to stand up to the crimes and criminals that feed off the DoD.

Just because you wore a uniform and drank the Kool Aid doesn’t mean squat. I appreciate that you have to defend the way you spent your working life … what a waste it would be otherwise but that doesn’t mean those of us who hate the waste have to follow you into the darkness. History shows us where that leads, it shows it every few generations if you care to look.


#31

[QUOTE=Steamer;141137]Just because you wore a uniform and drank the Kool Aid doesn’t mean squat. I appreciate that you have to defend the way you spent your working life … what a waste it would be otherwise but that doesn’t mean those of us who hate the waste have to follow you into the darkness. History shows us where that leads, it shows it every few generations if you care to look.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Steamer…this is certainly a subject which we both strongly agree (as opposed to megayachts). I have waited all day for an attempt at a rebuttal from anybody but I have been disappointed at none forthcoming. Like my debates with the KP sycophants which I enjoy with much relish, I was savoring a close range gun duel with full broadsides today but no one has chosen to answer my volley. It might have proven a bloody mess with magazines exploding and entire ships disintegrating yet there is nothing like the smell of burning powder during a spirited heavy naval artillery exchange…

As a bard once wrote in song “the cannons don’t thunder…”

.


#32

[QUOTE=c.captain;141162] I have waited all day for an attempt at a rebuttal from anybody but I have been disappointed at none forthcoming. [/QUOTE]

The best rebuttals I have ever read, aside from history in general, are those from Dwight Eisenhower and Smedley Butler.

Both of those gentlemen wore the uniform, one while winning the Second World War in Europe, and the other while wearing a pair of Congressional Medals of Honor. I would say they were vets and both protested very loudly from a very “bully pulpit” to warn the American people of the threat to the nation posed by the admirals, generals, politicians, and defense contractors who profit from that unholy alliance created in the name of national security.


#33

Last year I ordered hammers at around $80 a piece. I ordered them threw the stock system because I’m not permitted to get them from Home Depot or Amazon at around twenty bucks a piece. That way I can’t engage in waste, fraud and abuse. Obviously I work for the government.


#34

[QUOTE=Steamer;141173]The best rebuttals I have ever read, aside from history in general, are those from Dwight Eisenhower and Smedley Butler.

Both of those gentlemen wore the uniform, one while winning the Second World War in Europe, and the other while wearing a pair of Congressional Medals of Honor. I would say they were vets and both protested very loudly from a very “bully pulpit” to warn the American people of the threat to the nation posed by the admirals, generals, politicians, and defense contractors who profit from that unholy alliance created in the name of national security.[/QUOTE]

I will add this from recent past Secretary of Defense Robert Gates:

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates wrote in 2009 that the U.S. should adjust its priorities and spending to address the changing nature of threats in the world: "What all these potential adversaries—from terrorist cells to rogue nations to rising powers—have in common is that they have learned that it is unwise to confront the United States directly on conventional military terms. The United States cannot take its current dominance for granted and needs to invest in the programs, platforms, and personnel that will ensure that dominance’s persistence. But it is also important to keep some perspective. [B]As much as the U.S. Navy has shrunk since the end of the Cold War, for example, in terms of tonnage, its battle fleet is still larger than the next 13 navies combined—[U]and 11 of those 13 navies are U.S. allies or partners[/U][/B]

and no, he didn’t serve active duty in the military but had served his entire life in the service of the USA.

not only do we not need LCSs we also don’t need new SSBNs, CV battle groups, the P-8 Poseidon, or the F-35. There are no adversary militaries who have equipment we need to counter with these. The Federal Government and Congress should tell GD, NG, LM and Boeing that they must retool their organizations to the new reality that we will not be buying more and more overly complex, extremely highly priced hardware endlessly in the decades to come and that those companies need to become manufacturers of commercial hardware. Boeing obviously has the most diversified product line and could transition the easiest. Regardless, to support these huge corporations buying weapons from them we don’t truly need is a form of welfare as much as giving a woman money for having more and more children she doesn’t need.


#35

I might add that as shown by recent revelations of illegal domestic surveillance, all that cash spent by the CIA and NSA under the guise of national security is far more likely to be used to make sure the government and its favorite sons are safe from the American people.

Some of them at least have read their history books and are very concerned that their own corporate Bastille is likely to become a target and their own necks are what they want to secure … not yours or mine. If national security was really the concern we would have the best fed, the best educated, the most healthy, and most employed society working in the most productive factories and shipping goods worldwide on the most efficient shipping fleet on the planet. We should have that now, we have paid for it several times over since the end of WW2.


#36

[QUOTE=Steamer;141191]I might add that as shown by recent revelations of illegal domestic surveillance, all that cash spent by the CIA and NSA under the guise of national security is far more likely to be used to make sure the government and its favorite sons are safe from the American people. [/QUOTE]

well Steamer, I certainly know we know all of this but also know how many others here who don’t know it or won’t hear it (yeah kf5er and Bamatug…I mean YOU!). Between us, it is only more preaching to the choir, yet our fellows here who tell us how we are being unAmerican because they label us as not supporting our vaunted troops in uniform are the ones who are unknowing handmaidens to the loss of America not from an enemy from outside our borders but rather an enemy from within which is the corporate control of our own government and the populace. It all makes the times of Joe McCarthy appear now to be a kiddie show in comparison

at the rate we are turning over this once great and powerful Nation to the insidious interests of Wall Street profits and the 1% we are likely already now a dead Nation walking. How long before we succumb and collapse is now the question rather than if we can become healthy again…

…but I know that I do not have to tell you any of this…

.


#37

[QUOTE=DeckApe;141174]Last year I ordered hammers at around $80 a piece. I ordered them threw the stock system because I’m not permitted to get them from Home Depot or Amazon at around twenty bucks a piece. That way I can’t engage in waste, fraud and abuse. Obviously I work for the government.[/QUOTE]

No credit card for you guys? We have them for purchases up to 3k and we can buy from Napa, Grainger, etc. We’re gov’t too.


#38

I am one of the “tea party” as you called me. I am a extreme conservative. I don’t believe in spending, and the excess money that is wasted on troops. I.e family separation pay . Why should the Military compensate you, you knew when you signed leaving family was a must . I am for the people of the people and by the people

The NSA is a joke, the CIA does their job. Secret service is a joke. FBI can do their job. I believe politicians should make the average mean of the district they represent, and no added perks. And be term limited to two terms in a lifetime.

Medicare should be scraped, and rewrote. There should be strict age requirements and income limits. It was wrote so that every working adult contributed but no every working/retired adult withdrew from it. But dare say that to an old timer.

Disability or better know as SSI. Should be scraped and rewrote. I see a lot of adults who cant work, but cAn wash their cadillac or cut their grass. Guess what their is companies you could work for cutting grass or washing cars.

I am completely against wasteful spending on any level. I am 100% pro american. Try my hardest to not do business with any company that out sources any level of its business from the janitor to the ceo office.

I strongly believe in the Jones act and believes it needs to be strengthened even more in favor of an american mariner

BamaTug


#39

[QUOTE=Bamatug;141198]I am completely against wasteful spending on any level. I am 100% pro american. Try my hardest to not do business with any company that out sources any level of its business from the janitor to the ceo office.

I strongly believe in the Jones act and believes it needs to be strengthened even more in favor of an american mariner[/QUOTE]

Although there is vastly more we differ on than share in common, I can say that I am in full agreement with your statements here…maybe there is hope yet?


#40

[QUOTE=kf5er;140964]Ever hear of constructive criticism? All this bitching and whining about problems won’t solve anything. Put your little minds
together and come up with a solution. That is how rational adults react.

BTW my favorite Kool Aid is grape… whats yours?

Retired Chief U.S. NAVY[/QUOTE]

Hey Chief, they have done something. They have identified a problem and brought it to light with their post. Choosing to remain blind to yet more monumental government waste ultimately weakens our military.

President Eisenhower was a prophet when he warned the nation to beware of the military/industrial complex in our country over 50 years ago. Apparently it’s alive and well and costing taxpayers a bundle. Our Congress is bought and paid for while corporations that pay them engage in one of the most profitable businesses on Earth; war. Top military brass enjoy the many perks, benefits, and lucrative jobs from the same corporations and we the taxpayer get saddled with the bills.

Rampant waste and the legalized corruption that passes for daily defense industry business today weakens our military and the nation it’s supposed to defend from foreign AND domestic enemies.