Norway is really awesome


#142

Boofuckinghoo. Without the Marshall plan there was no getting back on your feet. Your culture would have ceased to exist. Under either Hitler (if he had not been crushed) or Stalin, your options would have been starvation, slavery, or mass extermination.

Stop kidding yourself, without US counter balance, the Ukrainians and the Finns would be cooking breakfast for “unidentified” troops at gunpoint tomorrow morning. If I lived as close to Finland as you do, that would make me nervous.

So you do see the consequences of Uncle Sam walking away after all.

Longer than Denmark, we have the land and resources to be self sufficient. Also because you are sitting ducks and we can shoot back while all you can do is quack.


#143

Or your illustrious leader fire first because he doesn’t understand the consequences, for you, me and everybody else on this earth?

Putin does and he is not suicidal.


#144

Candid, frank, outspoken, forthright, blunt, open, honest, truthful, sincere, direct, plain-spoken, straightforward, ingenuous, and refreshingly accurate.


#145

Trolling 101: If you have no response, change the subject.


#146

Troll and counter troll it brightened up my day. I’m not a Brit but Neville Chamberlain with his appeasement policy unwittingly gave just enough time to build enough fighters to win the air war that prevented invasion of Britain.
The Battle of the Atlantic was the key to the final defeat of Hitler.
Without logistics there is no boots on the ground to win anything.


#147

Setting trolling and counter trolling aside, I disagree about Chamberlain. From what I’ve read, Chamberlain and his Old Guard’s appeasement policies are what got them backed into a corner as they listened for far too long to Hitler’s broken promises. Germany was aggressively developing and producing 10 times more planes and all other weapons of war including subs.
When British Parliament finally had enough, they got him out of the way, a broken man. If Churchill had not been bigger than life and not succeeded in ramping up production, the UK probably would not have survived.
Which ties back to the subject at hand, because this is what allowed Norway got to become really awesome.


#148

Norway did rather well under Hitler. They went along with the Germans and survived unbroken until the end of the war. After the War Norway went along with the American/British/French. I have no doubt that if Russia were to roll threw they would go along and do nicely under Putin.

I don’t say this to be snide. A country with a small population and a harsh climate can’t survive long against stronger neighbors. It’s that appeasement strategy which is the real reason that made Norway awesome.


#149

The battle of the Atlantic was crucial for the survival of Britain and her allies, but the largest number of boots on the ground was on the Eastern Front, on both sides.

The biggest American contribution was on the home front, producing weapons and other materials, and the ships to transport it across the Atlantic. Many of the ships were to replace those lost in the early part of the war, in the U boat war.

Nobody should diminish the importance of American assistance during and after the war, nor before America became an active combatant in WWII, but the perception of the importance appears to be slightly different on each side of the Atlantic.

In any case, it is over 70 years ago and not relevant to the present situation in Europe, or the world.
We should learn from passed mistakes, but not be hung up in them.


#150


#151

You have your facts screwed up.The contribution of Norway, relative to the size of it’s population, was no less than that of America during WW II.

Norway was neutral until the Germans attacked in April, 1940, as was America until the attack on Pearl Harbour in Dec.1941.

Norway fought against the German invasion with whatever forces they had and did NOT “roll over” as you state. The King finally left Norway only in June, 1940, after the British and French pulled their support troops out.

During the war the Norwegian Home Front kept up the fight and kept a large contingent of Germans tied up in Norway, thus not available to fight on the Eastern Front.

The Norwegian merchant fleet was the third biggest in the world before the war and it’s contribution to the war effort was greatly appreciated by the British and Americans alike.

1/3 of the fleet and many thousand Norwegian seafarers were lost in allied service (some before Norway was even in the war)

I suspect you actually know this and are just trolling. If I’m wrong, I recommend you read history that doesn’t glorify America and try to claim victories that doesn’t exists.


#152

Hitler’s folly


#153

People in Europe (incl. Germany) are more aware of the lessons of the Nazi atrocities in WW II then anybody else. You can remember and learn, but not being paranoid about it.

Europe of 1930-40s are not the Europe of today, nor are the rest of the world. I can see similarities with what happened in Germany in the 1930s to what is showing it’s ugly head in America today.

I suggest YOU and your fellow Americans are in more danger of repeating history then ANY European countries.

Russia and China are not the enemies of Europe, nor of America, unless you make them so by aggressive behaviour and stupid tweets.


#154

I base my faith in human nature on recorded history. Countries vie for power the same as individuals do. Sooner or later some who achieve ultimate power will abuse it. Unfortunate but it seems to be hotwired into the brains of humans since the beginning of time.


#155

The fact remains that without the US during WWI, WWII, the post war Marshall Plan rebuilding, the subsidization of Europe by allowing European goods into the US market with very low duties, and the Cold War, Norway would have ceased to exist and would have become part of either Germany or Russia.

Then there is the issue of free and easy Immigration to the US. There are more Norwegians living in the US than there are in Norway. Norway, and the rest of Europe, would have been a much poorer place, if the US had not allowed mass immigration, and a steady flow of remittances back to Europe.

If the US pulled out of NATO tomorrow, Putin would retake the Baltic States. NATO would abandon the Baltic’s. Norway with its oil and fish might not be too far behind.


#156

As you say. You are the expert. I certainly believe that Norway didn’t want to be occupied by any foreign power.

But it seems that Norway didn’t do much to prepare to resist an occupier. Am I mistaken that Norway wanted to remain neutral and unmolested (as the United States also wanted)? That the decision was made to have a weak military and the thinking was that weakness would protect them or at least make them a non-threat?

Certainly Germany would have easily rolled over anything Norway could have mustered. I don’t think anyone doubts that. But here we are again with Norway, along with a good part of Europe, preferring comforts and military weakness over a strong defense. As an ally of Europe we Americans are frustrated by this.

The failure to prepare is preparing for failure.

Peace is fleeting. War will come. It always does. Europe will not be ready.


#157

The attack on Norway was all about control of the iron ore from Sweden, which was loaded in Narvik for export both to UK and Germany and transported along the Norwegian coast.

Britain was also planning to occupy Norway to stop the Germans from getting it, but the Germans beat them to it:


Whether a British attack would have been met by the same resistance as the Germans is an open question, but probably not.

Towards the end of the war the Soviet Army invaded and occupied the northern part of Norway. The Germans applied their “scorched earth” tactic as they withdrew:


They allowed and abetted Norwegian troops arriving from UK to enter and take control and withdrew from Finnmark 25. Sept. 1945.

There is a competition for resources in the Arctic between Norway and Russia, but any military confrontation is unlikely, unless there should be any NATO provocations, like major exercises or forces stationed too close to the main Russian base in Murmansk.
That is why the main Norwegian garrison and the bi-annual “Cold Winter” NATO exercise are held in the southern part of Troms county, 900 km from Murmansk. (Why disturb a sleeping bear??)

Most Norwegians are more afraid of what America will do than that Russia will attack unprovoked.
When you have held the power of world dominance for so long and are feeling it slipping, who knows what reaction there will be. (Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely)

With the unhinged and uninformed present President of the world’s biggest military power, who does not appear to even understand the power he holds, the danger that an unintended provocation can start a war is even greater.


#158

Of course your reading of the history is different from mine.
Actually the Norwegian Vikings were the first European migrants to the North American Continent. (But then you probably knew that.

The large migration from Norway to USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa and even to the Galapagos Islands, was in the last half of the 1800’s and into the early 1900’s.:

Who gained most from it can be debated, but I believe the abt. 5 mill. or so who claim Norwegian ancestry in USA, has contributed their fair share to the rise of the US Empire and little to it’s downfall.

The Atlantic have an interesting take on why Norwegians are not likely to move to USA in large numbers anytime soon:


#159

Posted without comments:


#160

Your second link is to NPR again, not to Atlantic.


#161

Ooops,the Senior moments are getting more frequent.
Now corrected and here it is: