In the cadet training vessel situation it would not matter since they could only go as far as completing the 30 days DP familiarization. The limited/unlimited determination is only based on the watchkeeping time accrued after the DP Simulator course. At least 60 days of the watchkeeping time has to be on DP2 or DP3 vessels for the unlimited.
What? For DP unlimited you need 210 total days DP watch keeping including the 30 for familiarization.
The last thing we need is 3rds with extremely limited real sea time and extremely limited desktop time able to be jrdpo’s right out of school. That was a career destination job, NOT an entry level one.
If KP (and the state academies) want to offer DP training (which they should), then they should get one or more DP-2 or DP-3 vessel(s) with the proper class notations, and a top of the line DP simulators.
KP (and the state academies) should offer the DP Induction, DP Advanced, and DP Seatime Reduction courses to commercial mariners, as well as to their degree program students.
If academy DP courses are not going to be offered to commercial mariners, then they had better not be using my tax dollars to fund their DP programs.
Oops! The end of that post was missing what I intended to say. Which was that you only need 60 days on DP2 or DP3 vessels for the unlimited certificate.
[QUOTE=c.captain;79452]Did you know there’s another T-AGOS ship sitting in Seattle that KP could have if they we’re so fucking dim? It was transferred to Seattle Central Community College to use in their maritime training program but they have no money to operate the thing. I bet they’d love to give it to KP and you know, being diesel electric, you could make one of those DP. It would be an entire galaxy farther ahead that what they just got. [/QUOTE]
Talk about irony but this T-AGOS vessel is now for sale. Why didn’t in just go to KP in the first place or why doesn’t MarAd just take it back?
MarAd is so effing lost it is laughable…
If Kings Point and MARAD were smart, they’d wait for Woods Hole to get their new research vessel and take over RV Knorr. Granted its built in 1968 but had renovations done in the 90s.
[B]Length[/B]: 279 feet (85 m) [B]Draft:[/B] 16.5 feet (5 m), with bow thruster lowered - 23 ft (7 m)[B]Displacement:[/B] 2,685 LT [B]Range:[/B] 12,000 NM[B]Laboratories:[/B] 2,756 sq. feet [B]Speed:[/B] 11.0 knots cruising [B]Endurance:[/B] 60 days [B]Fuel Capacity:[/B]160,500 gallons [B]Mid-Life Overhaul:[/B] 1989-1991[B]Beam:[/B] 46 feet (14 m) [B]Gross Tons[/B]: 2,518 T[B]Complement:[/B] [B]Crew[/B] - 22 [B]Scientists[/B] - 32[B]Technicians[/B] - 2 [B]Propulsion:[/B] Two Lips diesel-electric azimuthing stern thrusters, 1500 SHP each[B]Bow Thruster:[/B] Lips retractable azimuthing 900 SHP [B]Ship Service Generators[/B]: 3 @ 1,110 KW 600 VAC, 1 @ 560 KW 600 VAC [B]Portable Van Space:[/B] At least six 20 ft. vans
[QUOTE=c.captain;79704]
MarAd is so effing lost it is laughable…[/QUOTE]
That was the Indomitable. The whole STBD side was badly burned when NOAA’s piers burned on Lake Union. Its gonna be quite a project to get that ship seaworthy again.
[QUOTE=Bloodyshitcakes;79716]That was the Indomitable. The whole STBD side was badly burned when NOAA’s piers burned on Lake Union. Its gonna be quite a project to get that ship seaworthy again.[/QUOTE]
Why do you say that? The listing doesn’t mention internal damage and even if there is some, it doesn’t effect seaworthiness.
All I see is scorched paint.
[QUOTE=c.captain;79750]Why do you say that? The listing doesn’t mention internal damage and even if there is some, it doesn’t effect seaworthiness.
All I see is scorched paint.[/QUOTE]
Possibly. The creosote soaked pilings burned with the fire of a thousand suns. I bet there is quite a bit of warpage/fatiuge to the steel. It was to be converted into a NOAA ship but after the fire NOAA doanted or sold it to Seattle Maritime Academy.
Hi, first post here. USMMA grad.
So I was wondering if a Kings Point cadet has ever worked on these NASA ships as part of their “Sea Year”? Or maybe even part of their two-week internship requirement? Anybody here know? I know that there are some Kings Point graduates that have worked on board but I’m more curious about cadets having had the opportunity on the Liberty Star or Freedom Star during the past 30 years of the Shuttle program.
I tried a google search but now that this story has broke, it is suddenly difficult to sift through all the result that now come up. No news stories that pre-date this week.
Thanks!
[QUOTE=Bloodyshitcakes;79780]Possibly. The creosote soaked pilings burned with the fire of a thousand suns. I bet there is quite a bit of warpage/fatiuge to the steel. It was to be converted into a NOAA ship but after the fire NOAA donated or sold it to Seattle Maritime Academy.[/QUOTE]
I had heard that the USNS INDOMITABLE and JOHN N. COBB were donated to SMA as a pair. Of course, the COBB has an antique Fairbanks engine with a broken crank and the INDOMITABLE needs alot of $$$ to make her operational so why on earth did NOAA think the the SMA could do anything with them except sell them both eventually and pocket the money. Of course, there’s the E.L. BARTLETT which is not going anywhere. Why is the SMA getting so many vessels they have no chance of ever using? They have somebody very well versed in the “system” who knows how to work it and work it very well…
They take them for the $$$$, after 2 years they can sell them and add $ to the budget.
[QUOTE=leadline;79713]If Kings Point and MARAD were smart, they’d wait for Woods Hole to get their new research vessel and take over RV Knorr. Granted its built in 1968 but had renovations done in the 90s.[/QUOTE]
Come to think of it but any of the T-AGS class would make awesome training ships and their DP but I doubt that MSC is going to be getting rid of any other them anytime soon. I always thought that the hull of that class would adapt very readily to an excellent passenger ship configuration.
NOAA ended up converting one the Okeanos Explorer they put some serious $ into her too.
Forgive me, I did not go to an academy so I don’t know much about these things, but why wouldn’t the USMMA want a training SHIP and not a BOAT? I mean, let’s be honest even the old King’s Pointer isn’t much of a ship in my book. Seriously, any T-AGOS or NASA or even modern DP Offshore mud boat is not much of a SHIP, at least not compared to those of other schools:
CMA:
Maine Maritime:
Mass Maritime:
Those are ships!
[QUOTE=captfish;79804]Forgive me, I did not go to an academy so I don’t know much about these things, but why wouldn’t the USMMA want a training SHIP and not a BOAT? I mean, let’s be honest even the old King’s Pointer isn’t much of a ship in my book. Seriously, any T-AGOS or NASA or even modern DP Offshore mud boat is not much of a SHIP, at least not compared to those of other schools:
CMA:
Maine Maritime:
Mass Maritime:
Those are ships![/QUOTE]
Do not mention THAT to KP alumni association. I just received an email from them mentioning everything is coming-up roses.
[QUOTE=captfish;79804]Forgive me, I did not go to an academy so I don’t know much about these things, but why wouldn’t the USMMA want a training SHIP and not a BOAT? I mean, let’s be honest even the old King’s Pointer isn’t much of a ship in my book. Seriously, any T-AGOS or NASA or even modern DP Offshore mud boat is not much of a SHIP, at least not compared to those of other schools:
CMA:
Maine Maritime:
Mass Maritime:
Those are ships![/QUOTE]
Because Kings Point cadets have what is called sea year, which is a period of 4 months 3/c year and 8 months 2/c year, during which they are assigned to actual working cargo ships in the U.S. merchant fleet. Ships that carry a normal merchant crew complement, go to commercial ports, and carry out cargo operations, rather than carrying hundreds of cadets, going to “fun” ports, and staying there for unrealistic amounts of shore leave time. Not that that isn’t great, but I would argue that the former is a much better way of exposing cadets to the maritime industry.
Besides, KP doesn’t have the infrastructure to support a vessel the size of the Empire State, State of Maine or the Golden Bear. Even the old Kings Pointer was almost too big. A smaller ship that allows the cadets to get underway on a more frequent basis to learn the basics of watchstanding, shiphandling, and engine operations before reporting to their assigned merchant vessels will most certainly decrease the initial learning curve, even if she is “hopelessly outdated”, which from a basic training standpoint is debatable.
As for why KP shouldn’t get another T-AGOS? They just got RID of one, because it was ineffective as a training ship. It never got underway because of professional crewing requirements, NOAA Corps used it far more than the cadets. Why on earth would they get another?
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;79812]Do not mention THAT to KP alumni association. I just received an email from them mentioning everything is coming-up roses.[/QUOTE]
KP is different from the state schools. The state schools have a school ship that all the students go out together on. These are large ships that hold hundreds of people. KP sends their midshipmen out two at a time as cadets on commercial vessels as part of their sea-year. The have no need for a large vessel. Just something smaller that can be used for different orientation exercises for freshmen or for a 3rd classer or 2nd classer who is short of few days of sea time. At the beginning of my second sea year, there were no ships available when I completed my internship so they put me on board the KP’r for a week, or so, till one was ready. There are limitations such as a maximum of 30 days or so out of the 300 can be from smaller ships, since we are, of course, trying to earn unlimited licenses. I think I ended up with well over enough days anyway. For engineers, back when I was there, they also tried to split it 50/50 between steam ships and motor vessels. So in the end, KP has no need for one of those big beautiful ships. Heard some great stories, by the way, from the state guys I’ve worked with about what it was like to be on one of those ships and a thousand guys hitting the port at the same time. Great stories.
On the subject of KP sea-year,[B] I was wondering if a Kings Point cadet has ever worked on these NASA ships as part of their sea-year?[/B] Or maybe even part of their two-week internship requirement? Anybody here know? I know that there are some Kings Point graduates that have sailed on board but I’m more curious about cadets having had the opportunity on the Liberty Star or Freedom Star during the past 30 years of the Shuttle program.
I tried a google search but now that this story has broke, it is suddenly difficult to sift through all the result that now come up. No news stories that pre-date this week.
Calling c.captain - Oh c.captain - I got something which surly will make your day: