New Ship? El Faro Eye Opener!

At lunch today we were discussing this, and a family member reminded me that the Navy has 5 too many of the “super ferry” vessels. They can carry 300 passengers, maybe a platform that can be converted?

I don’t think that would work. It’s too fast, but more importantly, it would teach you a little about boat handling! Haha

Question: Anyone here done both Academy cruises and cadet shipping during their cadet years? While I was at SUNY, 2nd class had the option of going cadet shipping for their SST in place of cruise that year. Unfortunately there were always more applicants than berths so I didn’t get the chance. Talking to classmates who did go, it seemed their experiences were all over the map. Some loved it, some hated it. Most got very little if any assistance with the Project. Likewise, some crews seemed to love having cadets on board. Others merely tolerated it. The plus side was ports, types of vessels, and cargoes that they otherwise have only read about. So any one want to share?

[QUOTE=KrustySalt;171291]I don’t think that would work. It’s too fast, but more importantly, it would teach you a little about boat handling! Haha[/QUOTE]

I’m pretty sure the Navy is building 6 more of those operated by MSC. Nothing like a traditional ship, more like driving an OSV with water jets. Also, they have very limited seakeeping, are expensive to operate and only 1500 tons.

I believe as others said, the dual use of training ships is the best idea. I think they are very much needed on campus at the academies to support training all year round, which they do.

[QUOTE=Eyegor;171297]Question: Anyone here done both Academy cruises and cadet shipping during their cadet years? While I was at SUNY, 2nd class had the option of going cadet shipping for their SST in place of cruise that year. Unfortunately there were always more applicants than berths so I didn’t get the chance. Talking to classmates who did go, it seemed their experiences were all over the map. Some loved it, some hated it. Most got very little if any assistance with the Project. Likewise, some crews seemed to love having cadets on board. Others merely tolerated it. The plus side was ports, types of vessels, and cargoes that they otherwise have only read about. So any one want to share?[/QUOTE]

As a KPer, all of my training shipping was as a commercial cadet (obviously). I don’t recall anyone giving me assistance on my Sea Project, to be honest. . . other than access to drawings. . and other things. . . it was kind of a self starter as I recall. . . lotta years ago, though. . .

I sailed Cadet Observer twice (one in lieu of cruise, one durning winter break) and did two Summer Sea Terms. I think that the first sea experience aboard the training ship was important. I knew very little about shipboard life and safety. The two Cadet Observer experiences I found very helpful in preparing me to “ship out.” I was lucky on my “in lieu of” Cadet Observer. I was on a busy coastwise tanker. I learned a lot of things that others in my class could only picture ( tank cleaning and general tanker operations). I think the perfect training model would be a mix of the two experiences.

[QUOTE=btm;171546]I sailed Cadet Observer twice (one in lieu of cruise, one durning winter break) and did two Summer Sea Terms. I think that the first sea experience aboard the training ship was important. I knew very little about shipboard life and safety. The two Cadet Observer experiences I found very helpful in preparing me to “ship out.” I was lucky on my “in lieu of” Cadet Observer. I was on a busy coastwise tanker. I learned a lot of things that others in my class could only picture ( tank cleaning and general tanker operations). I think the perfect training model would be a mix of the two experiences.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. I too sailed on two training ships, and did a commercial cruise my second summer. I also added in via the academy one push boat job. I felt this was a good balance. The training cruises emphasize certain aspects that commercial won’t, and vice versa. Fundamental applications that should be ingrained, but are not always utilized commercially can be gotten on a training vessel. Then the experience and practical application is second to none on a commercial ship.

Thanks guys. That was exactly the type of response I was hoping for.

[QUOTE=Tankerengr;170364]There is nothing “out of date” about a steam plant. The decline in steam propulsion was strictly due to economic factors, not technology. As newer environmental regulations come into effect you’ll see more. A lot of LNG tankers are steam plants as well, and they are very high tech.[/QUOTE]

Not only that they’re far cheaper to maintain if kept up to a standard and much more maneuverable. Steam plants are perfectly viable for shipboard propulsion and electrical generation.

And how much of America’s electricity was steam?

[QUOTE=lm1883;172790]It has been my experience that steam ships are more difficult to maneuver than a conventional diesel vessel.[/QUOTE]

I beg to differ.

[QUOTE=cmakin;170653]Hell, by the time I first signed on a ship with my shiny new license, I had already sailed on 6 different ships and worked on 5 completely different plants. [/QUOTE]

There’s a lot to be said for that real-world experience.

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[QUOTE=cmakin;170763]Yeah, if anything, my Sea Project suffered because I wanted to absorb as much as I could being on board. . . . by actually working. . .[/QUOTE]

One of the east coast schools (I forget which) had an agreement with my old company that their cadets would do 4 hours on deck, 4 hours in the bridge, and 4 hours on their project every day. I always advised the cadet to ignore that and bust ass on deck when there was work going on, ride in the bridge underway, and we’ll make sure they have time for their project later on once they’ve proven themselves and actually learned something.

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[QUOTE=cmakin;170653]It is also VERY common for, say an British or Dutch officer to sail on out flagged ships - much more so than US.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think Americans have an issue with the idea of working on foreign ships, but the pay just isn’t worth being away from home. I expect the foreign jobs that pay well don’t want Americans.

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[QUOTE=Tankerengr;171093]From MARAD

https://www.transportation.gov/fastlane/investment-maritime-education-keeps-america-strong

That’s not all—President Obama’s 2016 Budget includes $5 million for the design of a National Security Multi-Mission Vessel (NSMV). The NSMV would be the first purpose-built Academy training ship. The first one will replace the EMPIRE STATE, New York Maritime’s 53-year old training ship. It would also be capable of supporting our national interests by deploying in response to emergency and humanitarian assistance missions.[/QUOTE]

I hope that ship happens, it sounds like a great idea.

[QUOTE=awol45;170918]The [I]State of Maine[/I]…gives a place to train and get hands on experience to students that might not happen without it. Incoming freshman get their first taste of ship life while living on the ship during MUG month and RPT, they work maintenance and stand watches. These experiences alone, coupled with Freshman Cruise, prepare students for their first commerical experience of Cadet Shipping. On Junior cruise, the elder students essentially run the ship, and have the paid crew watching over their shoulder, and answering questions when needed. The training ship provides an incredible value from an educational standpoint.[/QUOTE]

The freshman cruise isn’t necessary and thus the ship doesn’t need to be able to carry nearly as many people as the State of Maine can. A smaller vessel that is cheaper to maintain and operate would be just as good for dock watch and maintenance. All that’s really necessary is a ship for junior cruise to do the STCW OICNW assessments on.

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;172818]

One of the east coast schools (I forget which) had an agreement with my old company that their cadets would do 4 hours on deck, 4 hours in the bridge, and 4 hours on their project every day. I always advised the cadet to ignore that and bust ass on deck when there was work going on, ride in the bridge underway, and we’ll make sure they have time for their project later on once they’ve proven themselves and actually learned something.

[/QUOTE]

Part of the first year sea project for engineers included some time on the bridge and deck, basic knowledge of mooring arrangements, etc. I also know that it worked the other way for the deck department, too. Didn’t mix up training to that extent. It IS good to get a basic understanding of what the other department does. . . I know that certainly came to play out personally for me when I moved to hawser boats and ATBs. Smaller crews required some cross over. I would also, on rare occasions need an extra hand in the engine room (especially on the hawser boats where I was the engine department). Most of the deckhands would complain, though. . . I also did get wheel time on some harbor work and on the ATB. . . . luckily I didn’t hit anything. Very hard, anyway. . .