MOT Oceans, add Western Rivers?

It seems like I should be able to add Mate (Pilot) Western a Rivers to my Master of Towing Oceans but since WR isn’t a “superior” route I’m not sure. Has anyone done this?

“If you hold an endorsement as master of towing vessels you may have an endorsement-as mate (pilot) of towing vessels for a route superior to your current route on which you have no operating experience—placed on your MMC after passing an examination for that additional route. After you complete 90 days of experience and complete a Towing Officer’s Assessment Record on that route, we will add it to your endorsement as master of towing vessels and remove the one for mate (pilot) of towing vessels.”

My understanding is that you need 90 days (or 60 - 12hour days) on Western Rivers to add Western Rivers to Master of Towing.

Never heard what it might take to add Mate Western Rivers to Master of Towing.

I will be interested to hear how you make out with this.

[QUOTE=tugsailor;169854]My understanding is that you need 90 days (or 60 - 12hour days) on Western Rivers to add Western Rivers to Master of Towing.

Never heard what it might take to add Mate Western Rivers to Master of Towing.

I will be interested to hear how you make out with this.[/QUOTE]

The language he quoted is accurate, it’s from footnote 1 in Table 1 to 46 CFR 11.464(a)

Thanks. Good to know. An endorsement for Mate Western Rivers will be on my next application to the NMC.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;170098]The language he quoted is accurate, it’s from footnote 1 in Table 1 to 46 CFR 11.464(a)[/QUOTE]

But does that apply in the case of adding Western Rivers to my Master of Towing Oceans? It’s not clearly a “superior route” so I’m not entirely clear.

don’t you need 90 vs 30 days for western rivers? That would make it “de facto” superior in my opinion.

[QUOTE=z-drive;170195]don’t you need 90 vs 30 days for western rivers? That would make it “de facto” superior in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

A superior route would be one in which if you have that route you can sail on every other route under it. Western Rivers allows you to only sail only on Western Rivers, not even on Inland waters. The example on the USCG website is if you have MOT Western Rivers you can add Mate Inland but they don’t mention anything about adding Western Rivers to any other route’s Master of Towing.

But at least there is a way to be allowed to work on another route in order to get your TOAR completed for that route.

from NVIC 04-01 page 7

" a license as master of towing vessels… endorsed for Oceans authorizes service on oceans and on the subordinate routes of near-coastal and Great lakes-inland waters ([B]except Western Rivers)."[/B]

"c. Upgrading the Towing Licenses.

To receive an endorsement for a higher route [B]or for Western Rivers, [/B]the mariner must obtain 90 days of observation and training, and completion of any portions of the TOAR not previously completed. He or she may also have to complete a limited examination for the area or route and should ask the local REC for more detailed information."

[I made the letters bold for emphasis]

I’m not sure what your point is.

Maybe you might want to send in your application for Mate of Towing, Western Rivers, along with the regs you quoted and see what happens.

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;170601]I’m not sure what your point is.[/QUOTE]

Point is that western rivers is in effect a superior route with no subordinate routes.
In other words, apply for the mate of towing, WR, so you can get your 90 days towards adding the WR to your MOT.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;170098]The language he quoted is accurate, it’s from footnote 1 in Table 1 to 46 CFR 11.464(a)[/QUOTE]

I recently was found eligible to receive master of towing inland. On the same application,I applied for mate of towing western rivers and mate of towing near coastal. I’m having trouble convincing the evaluator that I’m eligible for these mate licenses. I have been approved to test for apprentice mate on both routes, but that’s not what I applied for. Anybody have experience with this situation? Advice?

[QUOTE=drew;177333]I recently was found eligible to receive master of towing inland. On the same application,I applied for mate of towing western rivers and mate of towing near coastal. I’m having trouble convincing the evaluator that I’m eligible for these mate licenses. I have been approved to test for apprentice mate on both routes, but that’s not what I applied for. Anybody have experience with this situation? Advice?[/QUOTE]

They approved you to test for those routes, what makes you think they didn’t approve you for Mate of Towing?

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;177335]They approved you to test for those routes, what makes you think they didn’t approve you for Mate of Towing?[/QUOTE]

The approval to test letter says that I applied for apprentice mate and have been found qualified

[QUOTE=drew;177341]The approval to test letter says that I applied for apprentice mate and have been found qualified[/QUOTE]

Gotcha. I asked because I believe you will have to take the Apprentice Mate exams for those routes so I thought there might have been confusion.

Have you called and spoken to your evaluator and asked why you weren’t approved for Mate? Have the CFR ready to read to him if he says you aren’t qualified, footnote 1 in Table 1 to 46 CFR 11.464(a)

Capt. Phoenix
Thanks for the reply. I figure the test modules listed are right. Roger on the CFR. Were you successful in getting mate WR?

[QUOTE=drew;177349]Capt. Phoenix
Thanks for the reply. I figure the test modules listed are right. Roger on the CFR. Were you successful in getting mate WR?[/QUOTE]

I haven’t bothered try yet. But I know people who went Master Inland to Mate Near Coastal so that shouldn’t be an issue for you at all.

[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;177363]I haven’t bothered try yet. But I know people who went Master Inland to Mate Near Coastal so that shouldn’t be an issue for you at all.[/QUOTE]

The good folks at NMC set me straight. I need to test for apprentice,but will be issued mate.

[QUOTE=drew;177333]I have been approved to test for apprentice mate on both routes, but that’s not what I applied for. Anybody have experience with this situation? Advice?[/QUOTE]

If you were getting an original towing license you would test at Apprentice Mate and no test for that route when you go to Mate and Master. But in your case, you are going dirtectly to Mate, but you still have to test. The test is titled “Apprentice Mate” but it’s the same one that would apply in your case.

[QUOTE=jdcavo;177394]If you were getting an original towing license you would test at Apprentice Mate and no test for that route when you go to Mate and Master. But in your case, you are going dirtectly to Mate, but you still have to test. The test is titled “Apprentice Mate” but it’s the same one that would apply in your case.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your reply. It is perfectly consistent with what the NMC told me today. The wording of the letter hadn’t made it as clear. Now I get it.