"subjugate to their will"
You must have had a bad childhood.
guest is right though, all theses special licenses, OSV, 6000ITC, etc. hurts us. They trap you in and you can’t change without alot of trouble and probaly loss of pay.
“Indentured Servitude”
Right for who?
I got the large OSV in 1997 as one of the orginal 6 mariners that got it and didn’t find it hard to continue working up and passing the unlimited master exam. IF someone is trapped, it’s self-imposed. The only difference between the large OSV and an unlimited master is $17,000 worth of mostly useless STCW courses and one test at the Chief Mate level that really isn’t that difficult. I don’t see this difference as a major factor for any boat company crewing their vessels. I can’t blame any company for leaning on the side of an loyal employee that they are familiar with versus someone walking through the door that says how good they are because of a piece of paper.
Sir
If you in fact used large OSV seatime to go from a 3000grt master’s license to an unlimited master then regulations were broken and that license is obtained with invalid seatime. To qualify for ocean master of any gross tons you must show 6 months seatime as chief mate on a vessel that requires an unlimited chief mate, ie. an over 3000grt cargo, tanker, passenger, research or misc vessel. Since all OSV’s regardless of size only require a master and two mates (no chief mate reqd. on the COI) there is no qualifying time for unlimited master. You may have gotten around the rules but if you feel that you are equal to an officer who has come up following the rules and obtained valid seatime, then that is something you get to live with.
I say now as I have said before, OMSA and the entrenched powers in the LaFourche mafia are doing everything in their power to keep getting larger and larger vessels inspected, manned and operated as workboats. They want this to make more profit and not to have to hire mariners who are “outsiders” like myself. This is verbatim from their website:
OSV Tonnage
In 1994 the revised international tonnage convention was implemented for U.S. vessels. As a result the Coast Guard (based upon industry recommendation) adopted the maximum tonnage of an OSV as 6000 GT ITC. With the advent of ultra-deepwater development the need for OSV’s over 6000 GT became evident. Such vessels are currently under construction.
Issue: The Coast Guard requested the NOSAC form a committee to recommend design, construction, inspection, manning and licensing standards for the new class of OSV’s over 6000 GT ITC. Ben Bordelon of Bollinger was tasked to chair the committee.
Status: The NOSAC working group lead by Ben Bordelon of Bollinger with members from Tidewater, Otto Candies, ECO, Rigdon, OMSA, SEACOR, Hornbeck and including Richard Block will present its recommendations to NOSAC for approval and transmission to the Coast Guard April 18th, 2008. The current working draft envisions what is being referred to as Subchapter L plus. The committee will recommend keeping all the current cargo exemptions for OSV’s and has added full class, SOLAS and MARPOL compliance to the current requirements of Subchapter L.
OSV (Large) Training Program
The Coast Guard approved STCW training programs for mariners to work on OSVs over 3000 GT ITC and less than 6000 GT ITC may become obsolete due to the NOSAC task in progress to remove the tonnage limitations from OSVs.
Issue: OMSA member companies have been able to receive Coast Guard approval for a program to qualify mariners for a trade restricted license to work on OSV’s over 3000 GT ITC. With the removal of the 6000 ton limitation on OSV’s OMSA members through NOSAC are examining career paths for OSV operators that will both eliminate the tonnage restriction and the trade restriction on these licenses.
Status: The NOSAC working group lead by Ben Bordelon of Bollinger with members from Tidewater, Otto Candies, ECO, Rigdon, OMSA, SEACOR, Hornbeck and including Richard Block will present its recommendations to NOSAC for approval and transmission to the Coast Guard April 18th, 2008
You being one of the entrenched OSV officers obviously believe that all this is fully justified because it protects your position at the expense of unlimited tonnage officers but to think that a 350 or 400 or even 450 foot vessel can safely be operated with an OSV sized crew with OSV only experience is laughable and if you want to duke it out with me over this, let’s go!
The oil industry license is advantageous to the the oil industry in many respects one of which is it pretty much locks out the unions and chills any union organizing activity. Example: If an OSV license/rating holder were discovered to be attempting any organizing activities they would soon find themselves both unemployed and unemployable within the OSV industry. Those companies will do anything to stop a union from representing mariners, to say nothing of their horror of paying into a pension plan.
The anchorman probably got a job on a vessel that required a chief mate at least long enough to get a masters license. If your company has both OSVs and non-OSV vessels this is possible. However, most OSV companies do not have such a situation and the opportunity to progress beyond the oil industry license is very limited without changing companies and taking at least a temporary cut in pay. Anchorman was both determined and lucky.
amen brother…how true thou words!
Guest,
you sound a little hypocritical. You can only bitch about how screwed up & unfair the “Lafourche Mafia” has things, yet you choose to work in their oil patch. Sounds to me like you want to lock out those that have worked in this industry for their career because they have worked in this industry their whole career.
I’m not saying all oil patch mariners are competent but there are many who are. You don’t have to dig too deep to find incompetent mariners in any industry sector. UNfortunately that is the way things are.
I am not from the oil patch. I came to work here about 1 1/2 years ago, I’m sure for many of the same reasons you did. I will say this, as a whole, I would put the “Cajun’s” boat handling skills up against anyone’s, worldwide. (That goes for a ship as well as a boat.)
I wasn’t thrilled to find out that if I wanted to run the big boats down here I had to go thru the Large OSV program but what choice do we have; go with it, lobby NMC to change it, or go somewhere else.
I agree with Anchorman, you must have had a bad childhood.
captmike
What is resent is the entrenched power whom I refer to as the LaFourche mafia have overwhelming representation on the National Offshore Safety Advisory Committee (NOSAC) and how through that committee that they push through all of their “wish list” items to get things to their advantage with the USCG.
Read the passages from their website which I posted above and then tell me with a straight face that they are not trying to disenfranchise the unlimited licensed mariner? They are doing everything in their power to keep men like me out of “their” waters. Who the hell made it “their” waters anyway…THEY DID by being a mafia!
I am here because I believe in the future of offshore energy and that it will be the best place for me to work in the long run even if I have to work in an environment which I don’t like. My hope is that times will change and I am glad to have this forum to voice my opinions to help that along. You and anchorman are free to voice your opinions in rebuttal but as I said before, if you want to slug it out on this one then let’s get it on!
Lastly, I am not an all bigship unlimited guy and my shiphandling is damned good so don’t tell me that just because a guy has a big license he can’t bring a big vessel into and out of Fourchon and…
I had a wonderful childhood by the way…how was yours?
Wow, this ought to get interesting…
My comment was not to say that anyone was a poor ship handler, only that as a group the Cajun’s are some of the best.
With respect to what the Lafourche Mafia has achieved: I do not dispute what you are stating, they are certainly working in their own best interest. I think that anyone in their position would be trying to accomplish the same goal. Kudos to them for their achievements (whether you agree with them or not you have to admire their effectiveness). My guess is that when the 6000ITC endorsement was put into place, the day rate for a “local” captain was significantly less than an Unlimited Master. Now that the payscales are tipped in favor ot the oil field, unlimited masters are trying to get onboard and having to deal with a CFR regulation that is already in place. If those that feel that the regulation is somehow unfair or biased, it is up to them to lobby for a change. I had a captain once who told me “if it is worth bitching about, it is worth doing something about; if you are not going to do anything about it, don’t bitch about it.” I made the decision to work in an industry where I had no history. As long as I’m here I am happy to play by their rules (especially since they are the ones signing my check). If it ever gets to the point where I am not willing to accept their rules, I will either fight to change the rules or leave.
If you want to organize a movement to effect a change in the rules, I am all ears. Personally, I don’t feel strongly enough to initiate change; however, I’m more than willing to participate in a process if I think it is for the better.
I only ask these four things:
- large OSV’s remain limited to 6000grt and large OSV endorsements likewise limited to 6000grt…I am a realist and know that rollbacks will not happen so draw the line where things are right now.
- stop allowing US owned foreign flagged vessels to operate in the GoM with foreign national crews (as per 33CFRpart141.15)
- stop allowing foreign owned and flagged vessels access to the GoM without replacing foreign national crews with US nationals by determining that “right to effectively control” rests with the charterer, not the vessel owner.(33CFR141.5©)
- ceasing to issue OCS-B1 visas to foreign nationals under the guise that there aren’t any qualified American’s available!
If these four provisions, which are already on the books, were enforced, the number of jobs for US unlimited tonnage mariners would skyrocket and there would be work enough for everyone of us. Workboat mariners to their side of the industry and ship mariners to theirs. A better situation I cannot think of.
Anyway, regarding taking action for change…believe me, action is already happening at levels unseen. This situation is not unknown to the maritime industry outside the GoM. Where there is money being made, there is scrutiny by others as to how to get in on it!
As you well know, economics drive everything. I couldn’t agree more with your 4 requests. Good or bad, the “Lafourche Mafia” is going to continue giving the customer what they want. As oil companies explore and drill in deeper and deeper water, the push for bigger and bigger support vessels will continue. As a result, the effective lobbying efforts by the “Mafia” will continue.
Unfortunately the same can also be said of our government with respect to enforcing the laws on the books. Oil company $'s are too strategically placed among our political leaders to curb, much less stop the violations, or close the loopholes that allow these practices to continue.
I even wonder what affect we as mariners would have if every single one of us wrote to our congressmen and senators expressing our concerns over these violations/loopholes.
Can you provide info or details on what action is happening at unseen levels?
All I can say is that there might well be some interest taken by the next Congress in these matters. I have made contact with my Congressman who is well placed in Washington and I encourage every American mariner regardless of whether he be deepsea or brown water to write to the leadership of the House Coast Guard and Maritime Transportation Subcommittee at:
2165 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
or the Senate Subcommittee on Surface Transportation and Merchant Marine Infrastructure, Safety, and Security at:
508 Dirksen Senate Office Bldg
Washington, DC 20510-6125
or check and see if your Senator or Congressman is a member of either subcommittee and write to them directly to demand an investigation into and to hold hearings regarding the violation of the established US Statutes and Federal Regulations reserving employment on the U.S. OCS for US citizens. In a very down economy, converting jobs from being held by foreigners to US citizens might be a no brainer even if the entrenched powers fight it. At least one can hope.
btw, next time you are in Fourchon, note how many foreign subsea vessels are there. I have noted at least 20 working full time in the Gulf and I know there are more. Also note how many of those are brand new Norwegian built and flagged. Do you really think there are no American mariners who are qualified or capable to operate those vessels? Do you think if an American company took their ship to the North Sea to work, that the Norwegians would allow that ship to work there with an all US crew? NOT!
Guest,
I’m sure Anchorman will defend his post when he has the chance, in the meantime I’ll point out that he said he passed the unlimited masters exam, not that he had the unlimited masters license. I believe he has an unlimited chief mates license and has in fact run into having to get “chief mate” sailing time before moving up. <img alt="" src=“http://gcaptain.com/maritime/forum/js/FCKeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/wink_smile.gif” />
Congrats Anchorman!!!
It ain’t the tonnage what makes the man, it’s the bollard pull, baby.
I get it now C_A. You are a Tug Boat Captain.
What is the difference between God and a tug boat Captain?
God doesn’t think he is a tug boat Captain…
Jesus runs my tow winch.
I’m doing tugs in this version of my career, and will likely retire on 'em unless I become a Pilot. I’ve been all over the map. It has certainly been interesting not to be locked into one segment of this industry. I’ve done it on purpose. I wish more people would do that, especially the unlimited guys who get so pissy about the 6000 ton OSV gang. It would promote peace and love and harmony and quite possibly hugs and kisses. That’s one of the things I love about the bar at MITAGS.
Slowly but surely, and it’s my own fault, I’m stripping away my cloak of anonymous-ness. I’m not sure if that’s such a good idea considering my willingness to speak my mind from behind the green curtain, Methinks I must be more careful. Or just make up a new account.
<strong>[b]What do you call an engineer who breaks up with his girlfriend?
[/b]</strong>
<strong>Homeless.</strong>
Jesus WHAT!!! LOL
I don’t like you.
Never? Don’t? You’re confusing me now, Chief.