Large OSV Master to Master Inland AGT


#102

That’s interesting but isn’t in any regulations. It was, and is still, possible to go straight from 2nd Mate to Master Unlimited by serving 12 months as Chief Mate.

Maybe that’s their internal policy for handling supply boats, although aren’t they supposed to be issuing Chief Mate OSV licenses now and requiring time as Chief Mate to upgrade to Master OSV?

Do you have the part they were answering with that section you posted?


#103

Doesn’t make you the Chief Mate.

Doesn’t make you the Chief Mate.

While it doesn’t by default make you the Chief Mate I think we’re getting close to the answer. Was the watch just the two of you? Who was the OICNW?

I highly doubt that on a supply boat.

It’s a really simple, yes or no question. Were you the Chief Mate?

In case you missed it:

46 CFR 10.107

“Chief mate means the deck officer next in rank to the master and upon whom the command of the vessel will fall in the event of incapacity of the master.”


#104

Yes, that’s another one that is being violated by many, many boats. Also, look up official log books and their usage requirements.


#105

I don’t think so. I think the reach around…errr workaround, or why it may appear that way, is the simultaneous holding of a 1600 Master or Master Large OSV. In those cases you ARE holding a Management Level STCW. See below.

Mate-Chief Mate.pdf (698.9 KB)


#106

Don’t know about OSVs but deep-sea the Chief mate is not required to hold a master’s license. If say, the second mate holds a masters license and the chief mate does not the Chief mate is still going to be the officer that relieves the master in case of incapacity.

If a person holds an unlimited master’s license but is sailing as Steward Utility that person is a Steward Utility , not the chief mate.


#107

That’s interesting to see how they’re applying the rule too OSVs but I’m talking in general, not on OSVs.

You can hold a 3M or 2M, sail for a year as Chief Mate on a cargo ship who’s COI allows for that, then upgrade to Master Unlimited.


#108

I’ll take your word for it. I’ve just no experience with someone pulling that off. Maybe JD can speak to implementation.


#109

If you sign articles,guess What? You now need a discharge from th ship.

You’re right, most have not even heard of Official Logbooks


#110

Describing to you my situation sorry to get specific.

46 CFR 10.107

“Chief mate means the deck officer next in rank to the master and upon whom the command of the vessel will fall in the event of incapacity of the master.”

Yes I was the chief mate


#111

Also, how are you doubting the duties performed are that much different? It may not be as much work or as hard and time consuming but I guess OSV’s have no cargo, crew, or training to that crew that needs to be administered? Just because it’s mud and groceries being taken out to a rig it doesn’t mean the vessel doesn’t need a voyage plan, stability plan and a well trained crew. The Chief Mate is the deck boss and makes sure this is all done. Unless I’m missing something about the duties of a Chief Mate? I guess maybe none of this needs to be done on an OSV? I guess a VLCC is the only vessel that carries cargo then, good to know…


#112

Because I’ve done both jobs so I know what they both entail. The job of Chief Mate on an OSV is more similar to that of Captain on a cargo ship than it is to Chief Mate.


#113

Then you should be able to get Chief Mate sea time to use towards Master Unlimited. You still need to test though, and if you’re going for oceans you need the assessments and classes too.


#114

So everyone agrees that I am entitled to Master Unlimited without testing. Glad I used this forum thanks! Will definitely come back for other mariner related questions!


#115

Again, just go take the test.

The Master Inland AGT test is at a similar level of difficulty as the basic 100 ton test. To prepare, I brushed up on Rules of the Road, but nothing else. The exam is easy and only takes a few hours. There is no need and no point to spend weeks trying to scam your way into the license without taking the exam.


#116

No, no one agrees with that. Yes you can apply directly for Master Unlimited Oceans, but you will need to take the test. If you want the STCW component you will need to take the classes and do the assessments as well. (You will also need to take the test if you only apply for Master Unlimited Inland.)


#117

The oldest edition of the CFR I have available is 1996, and that definition of “chief mate” is in there and is the same. It only appears to be recent as it really had little effect in the past. When OSVs were all less than 3,000 GT (1,600 GRT) there was no way to meet the requirement for an “unlimited” license to have at least 50% of service on vessels over 1,600 GRT. You could not be the chief mate on any vessel over 1,600 GRT without holding a license as chief mate unlimited. When OSVs became larger than 3,000 GT, that changed, but it was not until the 2013 rule change that formally authorized an OSV endorsement for 1,600 GRFT/3,000 GT or more that anyone took notice of the definition of chief mate and the service requirements for master unlimited, even though they had been there for a fairly long time.

As far as checking COIs, you are mostly correct. NMC evaluators definitely go into “MISLE’ the Coast Guard’s database that includes vessel data. Note on almost all NMC checklists there is a note “check MISLE.” Will they always check the COI? Maybe not. If manning isn’t an issue for evaluating sea service in the application, probably not. But they will still be in the system to check things like vessel tonnage, and possibly whether the vessel is authorized for voyages on the routes described in the service letter.https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-1996-title46-vol1/pdf/CFR-1996-title46-vol1-sec10-103.pdf


#118

That’s wrong ( I was going to say it is “partially correct” but for you I made an exception to my usual practice of polite understatement).

It wasn’t a regulation per se, but the combined effect of several regulations, see my post immediately above that explains the interaction of the tonnage requirements to qualify for “unlimited” endorsements without a tonnage limit (after 20 years I still cannot say or write that with a straight face) and the statutory limits on the tonnage of OSVs.


#119

If the Master did that, it would negate the possibility of an office withholding a service letter as a punitive measure…


#120

Yeah,Roger that JD. In an attempt to be brief…I confused myself (and everyone else). I meant to emphasize additional wording clarifying sea time credit for vessels without CM on the COI.

Thanks as always in participating.


#121

What if no one left on board has a Master endorsement…?