Jones Act Attack


#61

[QUOTE=c.captain;192059]you do realize that Maersk Line Ltd. has no operations in the coastwise trades…don’t you?

I believe that as long as they are owned by their Danish parent (AP Moller Group) they can never qualify for any domestic trade operations.[/QUOTE]

To my knowledge tugs do not carry cargo between US ports. Does the Jones Act get into play for harbour tugs?
If Svitzer establish a joint-venture company with some US interests, build tugs in the US and man them with US citizen, would that be against the Law? Why would that be bad for US Mariners?

PS> http://maritime-connector.com/aker-philadelphia-shipyard-and-financial-sponsors-create-pure-play-jones-act-shipping-company-philly-tankers/


#62

[QUOTE=ombugge;192066]To my knowledge tugs do not carry cargo between US ports. Does the Jones Act get into play for harbour tugs?
If Svitzer establish a joint-venture company with some US interests, build tugs in the US and man them with US citizen, would that be against the Law? Why would that be bad for US Mariners?[/QUOTE]

tugs used for ship assists in US ports must be coastwise trade qualified vis US built

regarding Svitzer being a partner with a US company to provide ship assist services I believe they can but there is a certain percentage of ownership they could not exceed although I am not sure what that percentage is? in US fisheries, a foreign entity can own no more than 25% of a US vessel.


#63

[QUOTE=tradax;192049]EUROPEAN whining in the Medias (now pitch their business in New York [B]“Blaming the Traffic on the I-95 on the Jones Act”.[/B] but have similar laws into their country, France Italy, Norway). figure…[/QUOTE]

FYI: Svitzer operate harbour tugs in many European countries, as well as in many countries outside Europe.

Many of the tugs operating in European waters are built in other countries. (Turkey, Singapore, Vietnam, China etc.)
Coasters and Short Sea vessels operating in European waters may fly foreign flags, even if owned by European companies. They may be foreign built, or the actual Owner may be non-European entities with European subsidiaries.

The same goes for Offshore vessels and rigs working in Europe. Several US owned companies are operating here, although not many Americans are engaged by them.

This notion that has been banded around here many times; “American boats and American mariners cannot work in European waters” is totally wrong. You just have to meet the requirement on standard and qualifications, that is all.


#64

[QUOTE=c.captain;192067]tugs used for ship assists in US ports must be coastwise trade qualified vis US built

regarding Svitzer being a partner with a US company to provide ship assist services I believe they can but there is a certain percentage of ownership they could not exceed although I am not sure what that percentage is? in US fisheries, a foreign entity can own no more than 25% of a US vessel.[/QUOTE]

It appears that foreign entities can own US COMPANIES that own Jones Act vessels (not individual vessels): http://maritime-connector.com/aker-philadelphia-shipyard-and-financial-sponsors-create-pure-play-jones-act-shipping-company-philly-tankers/

Regardless of all that, what difference does it make to US Mariners who own the vessel they work on? As long as they are well paid and well treated, is it nationalism that comes into play? Most seafarers in the world work on ships under different flags and ownership during their career, without any problem.


#65

Right, I’m up to speed there, but how many were granted versus the number of applications?


#66

[QUOTE=lm1883;192072]Right, I’m up to speed there, but how many were granted versus the number of applications?[/QUOTE]

no idea…you’re gonna need to ask CBP

      • Updated - - -

[QUOTE=ombugge;192071]It appears that foreign entities can own US COMPANIES that own Jones Act vessels (not individual vessels): http://maritime-connector.com/aker-philadelphia-shipyard-and-financial-sponsors-create-pure-play-jones-act-shipping-company-philly-tankers/

Regardless of all that, what difference does it make to US Mariners who own the vessel they work on? As long as they are well paid and well treated, is it nationalism that comes into play? Most seafarers in the world work on ships under different flags and ownership during their career, without any problem.[/QUOTE]

makes a big difference to me…I don’t want to work for Dutchmen or Chinamen or Norskemen. (did the last during the factory trawler boom out here in the late 80’s…arrogant bastards all of em)


#67

[QUOTE=c.captain;192075]no idea…you’re gonna need to ask CBP.
makes a big difference to me…I don’t want to work for Dutchmen or Chinamen or Norskemen. (did the last during the factory trawler boom out here in the late 80’s…arrogant bastards all of em)[/QUOTE]

That is impressive, the Norskies managed to out-arrogant even you SIR!!!

I have worked with people from all over the world, including Americans, and do not have a problem with that.
Maybe because I’m a Norski and we don’t get “out-arroganted” easily??


#68

[QUOTE=ombugge;192079]That is impressive, the Norskies managed to out-arrogant even you SIR!!![/QUOTE]

and whatever is your point?


#69

[QUOTE=c.captain;192086]and whatever is your point?[/QUOTE]

Feel free to interpret as you please.


#70

Not only ships will be automated. Pretty soon you will be able to “print” autonomous ships as well: http://shipbuilder.nl/site/3d-printing-to-cause-turmoil-in-the-ship-building-industry-until-2050-looking-for-a-game-changer/

Initially the Chief Engineer will be printing the spare parts he needs right there and then as he needs them.
No more expensive stock on board, only a hard drive with 3d drawings of every conceivable machinery part needed. (Until Engineers are sent ashore to do their printing there, that is)


#71

We have had “unmanned engine control room” for many years, but so far only for restricted time and with Duty Engineer on standby 24/7 to answer any serious alarms. (Class notation ACCU, UMS, E0, depending on which Class Society)

Looking at this article about the first LNG Bulk Carrier being built at Hyundai and equipped with automation systems from Kongsberg, can the permanently unmanned engine control room be far away??: http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/kongsberg-integrated-automation-delivery-for-first-korean-built-lng-fuelled-bulk-carrier/

I have no idea what all these systems entail, but it sounds impressive. Somebody with more knowledge of shipboard automation then me may want to check it out.

In addition to the advanced new FGSS solution, the delivery includes K-Chief 600 alarm, monitoring and control system, AutoChief 600 propulsion control system, Bearing Wear Monitoring System (BWCM), Emergency Shutdown System (ESDS) and K-Gauge fuel tank monitoring. The AutoChief 600 propulsion control system will be integrated with the Kongsberg FGSS to ensure seamless control of the main Fuel Gas valve, propulsion and main engine.

I assume that “Autochief” stands for “Automated Chief Engineer”. What may such a creature look like? I bet it is nothing like KPChief, though.


#72

[QUOTE=ombugge;192101]
I assume that “Autochief” stands for “Automated Chief Engineer”. What may such a creature look like? I bet it is nothing like KPChief, though.[/QUOTE]

Dear lord lets hope not.

However, if I was going to superintend a new build, K’berg might be the last thing I put on it though. Send your angry comments and jingoistic supporting links to [B]pack-sand@usmma.org[/B]

By the way you should refer to an “unattended” machinery space not an “unmanned” one (at least for now).

Why do you think the linked article portends the near term arrival of a “permanently unmanned engine control room”? Its just a listing of their existing products (except for maybe the fuel gas supply system thing - haven’t seen that one) already installed on at least two rigs I worked on. One thing I would say about the K-berg systems I was exposed to is they did not have the end user in mind. Not saying they did not work but to each their own. My recollection of them is they are a pretty standard set of features for a SCADA system. Not in any way eliminating people from the equation. But maybe I’m missing something. Gotta be flexible, they say it keeps you young.

On an off topic item though - are you a paid advocate of the Norwegian Chamber of Commerce or just Aalesund? You remind me of the signature sign off for the new from Lake Wobegone - “Where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking and all the children are above average”. Do you get paid per click for all these links? I suspect you are some kind of human bot working for the autonomous ship consortium as well. If the topic is Jones Act you swing it back to autonomous ships. If the topic is Unified Bridge Control you swing it to Norway invented shark jaw arrangement, is responsible for the “gold standard” in OSV design, is the land where shipboard crew hoists a glass with the ship designers at the local pub, where their kids attend the same schools and that is why their designs are so good (By the way where is the ship owner who pays for all this in your scenario? Are they also sitting in the bar and writing checks as fast as the crew can suggest changes to the design?) And I hope I am misreading you when you imply Norway invented the top drive? Or that semisubmersible design jumped from early ODECO designs to Aker design which became a standard? Aren’t you forgetting the Earl & Wright Sedco 135’s and 700’s? Don’t you think they also qualify as “standards”. Not to mention the one might say, invention of DP rigs and subsea well control.

Isn’t there room enough for multiple cultures to have contributed to the advancement of maritime or drilling technologies? Just curious why you bombard the threads with links within your first post of a new topic to demonstrate the prowess of Norway. For example. It would be one thing if the links were to technical papers or bona fide history information but more often then not they are press releases or editorial content based on same or corporate cut sheets of equipment. Come on you’re better than this.

By the way Duke Zingraf (SEDCO) was responsible for the Top Drive along with partner Varco.

Back to the honey-do list. You have a nice day now.


#73

I already covered this in the other thread. Leif Erickson invented America. He built the first shipyards here which were of course state of the art. Any and all maritime inventions or technologies from then to now all come from Norwegians or Norwegian descendants. We are incapable of the brain power to dream up roboships that will put us all out of work.


#74

KPChief says,

I suspect you are some kind of human bot working for the autonomous ship consortium as well.

Of course! This must be the truth. The Consortium developed an AI so good, that he’s been passing the Turing test with us for a long time, just to prove their point about the feasibility of autonomous ships. I feel like such a sucker. Obviously I lack the brain power of a Norwegian or I would have caught on sooner.


#75

[QUOTE=ombugge;192097]Not only ships will be automated. Pretty soon you will be able to “print” autonomous ships as well: http://shipbuilder.nl/site/3d-printing-to-cause-turmoil-in-the-ship-building-industry-until-2050-looking-for-a-game-changer/

Initially the Chief Engineer will be printing the spare parts he needs right there and then as he needs them.
No more expensive stock on board, only a hard drive with 3d drawings of every conceivable machinery part needed. (Until Engineers are sent ashore to do their printing there, that is)[/QUOTE]

Oooops. In my hast this morning I posted this and the next post here in the wrong thread. Was intended for the Future Ship thread. Can a moderator please move accordingly. (Incl. reply, with author’s consent)


#76

Note to self. Never post before finishing that first cup of coffee in the morning.


#77

“I think gasoline prices on Election Day will be 15¢ to 20¢ higher than they were last year,”
BLAME : Insert the magic KEYWORD "
[B]
“Ship owners have been able roughly to double the price they charge to lease their tankers and barges, said ClownSmith, a research analyst at MJLF & Associates, a shipping brokerage in Connecticut. Depending on how long the outage lasts, the federal government could waive the Jones Act, as it did after Hurricane Sandy in 2012, to alleviate fuel shortages in the Northeast.”[/B]


#78

If there is a spike it won’t be till after the 8th. That being said, the same thing about price spikes were mentioned when the pipeline shut down in September (state of emergency in Tennessee and Alabama). What did increase were imports from Canada and the Caribbean and prices moved about 10cents.

Besides I hear they are going to sent the 7th Cavalry out to the Dakotas for a rematch. Once that happens the colonial will be the second most important pipeline.


#79

[QUOTE=lm1883;192167]If there is a spike it won’t be till after the 8th. That being said, the same thing about price spikes were mentioned when the pipeline shut down in September (state of emergency in Tennessee and Alabama). What did increase were imports from Canada and the Caribbean and prices moved about 10cents.

Besides I hear they are going to sent the 7th Cavalry out to the Dakotas for a rematch. Once that happens the colonial will be the second most important pipeline.[/QUOTE]

-The State of Emergency signed by the governors is to allow truckers to work pass the maximum 11H on-drive time allowed by the FMCSA, giving no reason to BP, Shell, Citgo gas stations to exaggerate a situation.
[B]
I have warned you, most lot of what is reported on us is not true.
[/B]
-Reports from Bloomberg and others linking the gasoline prices with the JA [I]are not fact-based[/I]. [I]( and are currently proven wrong, U.S Atlantic coast gasoline is cheaper than in the Gulf)-
[/I]-In the past, what is squeezing the gasoline is not even about transportation, not the american ships. its rather because of 1) an Oil refiners tax loophole and 2) retailers and wholesalers abusing their position during these rare events.


#80

At a joint ceremony held at the Philly Shipyard in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, employees of Marathon Petroleum Corporation (MPC), Crowley Maritime Corp., and shipbuilder Aker Philadelphia Shipyard, gathered to celebrate the christening of the MT West Virginia – the last in the series of four new Jones Act product tankers built for the joint venture between MPC and Crowley. West Virginia joins sister ships Louisiana and Ohio (all chartered by MPC) and Texas (chartered by ExxonMobil), all of which were commissioned in 2015 and 2016.

“We are thrilled to welcome the West Virginia to our fleet,” remarks John Swearingen, MPC senior vice president, Transportation and Logistics. “This new venture is an exciting expansion to our company and further grows our logistical and transportation capabilities.”

inShare2
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania,
November
10,
2016
Fleet grows with addition of new product tanker

True to the enduring nautical tradition of having a woman christen a new ship, Swearingen’s wife, Anne, had the honor of shattering a ceremonial bottle of champagne across West Virginia’s hull. The christening effectively blessed the ship to a long future of fair winds and following seas.

West Virginia is capable of carrying 330,000 barrels of crude oil or refined petroleum products, as well as various chemical cargoes. At 50,000 dead-weight tons, the four tankers are the first of their kind to receive the American Bureau of Shipping’s (ABS) LNG-Ready Level 1 approval.