Future of ships


#222

It’s a hot topic in the shipping world these days.
Here is a long article from a few days ago for your reading pleasure: http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/whos-to-blame-when-no-one-is-manning-the-ship/


#223

[QUOTE=ombugge;191390]It’s a hot topic in the shipping world these days.
Here is a long article from a few days ago for your reading pleasure: http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/whos-to-blame-when-no-one-is-manning-the-ship/[/QUOTE]

Yeah right, some article…
After starting off with a quick bait & switch featuring a smart phone and an ocean going ship, the author waxes poetic about saving a little over 3 grand a day on crew costs and getting rid of humans and their tiresome needs for food, water and a bit of space to hang out.
People can be such a pain in the ass.
To make us feel better, he points out that the COLREGS and master responsibilities would only need to be tweaked and not necessarily rewritten. Gee, what a relief.
He assures us that any potential conflict will be easily handled by the man in the big chair sitting in front of the huge screens. He mentions hackers but instead of facing the issue, he pulls another sleigh of hand and comes up with a game of semantics on whether we would call them hackers or pirates. But hey, doesn’t matter:
"Ultimately, shipowners and marine insurers alike should be aware of the cybersecurity issues, and how hackers or “cyberpirates” might affect their liability"
Blah blah blah, the lawyers will handle it. Problem solved. Nothing further to discuss here folks, go on home.
On the good Samaritan front, he commits heresy and proposes storing “a certain amount of water, food and supplies, etc…” The remote master would be responsible for "ensuring that supplies are properly deployed"
Good luck to the “remote master” convincing the skinny highjackers crawling all over the ship on his big screen to practice portion control.
How about the rescuees who will be remotely plucked from the stormy seas. Will you leave them to fend for themselves without shelter? Will you be so crass as to deny them means to relieve themselves after eating your MREs?
In your egalitarian utopia I have no doubt you will not only provide climate controlled shelter from the elements for them but also bathroom facilities for men and women as well as those who haven’t made up their minds. I am shocked and dismayed that brilliant equalitarian Scandinavian planners would fail to take these basic issues into account.
So now we’re back to feeding and housing people and catering to their needs. They might need immediate medical attention. Where do you draw the line? Unless of course all that pious talk about rescuing people is pure BS to give everyone a warm fuzzy feeling.
The author offers up the example of the Navy’s autonomous sub hunter but neglects to mention that The Sea Hunter doesn’t navigate in and out of ports loading and unloading cargo. He is comparing apples to oranges.
A short run ferry might be able to operate using this technology but the idea of autonomous Maersk box ships criss-crossing the planet by 2020 is extremely farfetched.
I continue to ponder how this would benefit society or the industry that I have enjoyed being a part of. I haven’t been able to come up with a single thing.
Read it and weep: "Ship owners will be able to optimize operations and maximize profit"
In other words, you’re history.

PS. Ombugge, tell me you just like to push our Yankee buttons and you don’t really believe this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Your vision may be unstoppable in the long run but thankfully my ashes will have been scattered in the winds of Cape Hatteras by the time some old geezer sitting on the beach with his son points to a sleek autonomous ship and says “Boy, back in the day, them things had a house on’em and people they called sailors would actually drive’em around by hand to where the bosses told 'em to go.”


#224

all stations all stations all stations
I say again:

[QUOTE=Lee Shore;191396]People can be such a pain in the ass.[/QUOTE]
out


#225

Ombugge, enjoy…


#226

[QUOTE=Lee Shore;191520]Ombugge, enjoy…

http://www.marinelink.com/news/hydrographic-terrasond414784[/QUOTE]

Yes interesting, although this is more a remote controlled drone rather than truly autonomous.
The fact that it has been used successfully to conduct survey work over a long period may prove the viability of the technology outside normal shipping. Now for the next step.

Equally interesting is this article: http://www.marinelink.com/news/autonomous-project-navtor415628
It is not only in Scandinavia the technology is being developed, it is a EU project with support from all of Europe.


#227

Once upon a time, in the future, they built a ship which could sail the seven seas, and conduct all her business safely, legaly, and profitably all with only two crewmen: a Chief Engineer and a dog.

Why did it need a Chief? Without the Chief, who would feed the dog?

Why did it need a dog? Without the dog, who would make sure the Chief didn’t touch anything?


#228

[QUOTE=Emrobu;191801]Once upon a time, in the future, they built a ship which could sail the seven seas, and conduct all her business safely, legaly, and profitably all with only two crewmen: a Chief Engineer and a dog.

Why did it need a Chief? Without the Chief, who would feed the dog?

Why did it need a dog? Without the dog, who would make sure the Chief didn’t touch anything?[/QUOTE]
I have seen a cartoon with that same joke, only the dog was replaced by a parrot. (Can’t find it now)

You will be happy to know that the once upon a time in the future is here soon: http://www.marinelog.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=23494:rolls-royce-crossing-system-will-control-fjord-1-battery-ferries&Itemid=226

OK there will be a Captain to watch and take control the last few meters into the ferry dock, as least initially, but auto docking will soon be added.

I don’t know if there will be a Chief Engineer required, since the propulsion will be electric, but maybe an ETO?
Ticketing is already taken care of by using automatic card readers when driving onboard.
A couple of ABs will be needed to direct the cars at each end. Mooring and charger connection is automatic, but they need to be on board on the crossing, just in case. (To assist pax in any emergency situation)

What is most important is catering staff to serve coffee and “svele”, nobody would even dear to automate those:


Here is how they are made by an expert in the art: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGWt58WkEKw
I believe you get the point without understanding his colourful language.


#229

Ja helvete!! Give us pancakes or give us waffles!! With jam! Golly I miss my noggy crewmates.


#230

Lloyds Register is also getting in on the act, together with other UK entities: http://www.lr.org/en/news-and-insight/news/LR-collaborates-on-collision-avoidance-research-project-for-autonomous-vessels.aspx


#231

It is not only in Norway that battery driven ferries are all the rages. Here is a article about two new ferries in Denmark: http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/abb-electrification-of-worlds-largest-emission-free-ferries-shortlisted-for-maritime-award/

But Battery and LNG propulsion is already old hat. Hydrogen fuel cells are the next step in the development of pollution free ships.

This “dreamer” thinks hydrogen fuel cells is the future for fishing vessels: [http://syslagronn.no/2016/10/27/syslagronn/hvis-sjefen-ser-denne-tegningen_169529/?_ga=1.239196555.9
A longliner like this can operate for weeks at sea.

These Urban Shuttle Ferries can be driven by batteries with fast charging facilities at each stop, or by Hydrogen fuel cells: http://www.maritimecleantech.no/content.aspx?page=105062&newsarticle=35077
(There is a Video with English commentary at the end of the article)


#232

George Quick knocks it out of the park again


#233

Positively brilliant writing. I could pick any number of things to quote, but this one is glaringly important to understand.

Technology-generated income inequality is also a threat to our free market economic system because it reduces consumer demand by reducing the number of consumers, principally workers, with the ability to purchase goods.

The economic concept of creative destruction only works, to the extent it can work, when new jobs are created to replace the old jobs lost due to the new, disruptive technology. And those new jobs must be more-or-less comparable, over the long haul, to the jobs they displace in terms of income & benefits, the numbers of people gainfully employed, and their availability to the displaced workers. Anyone who has been paying even a little attention to the last 2-3 (or more) decades should be able to see that this has not been the case. Usually the only people who care are those directly affected by the job loss. Well, the wolf is at the door now for us, too.

You can’t run the world’s present economic model by selling stuff to a shrinking pool of people that still have enough disposable income to float the whole enterprise. There will never be enough über-rich to manage it. So much bullshit arguing over capitalism vs. communism vs. socialism / conservatives vs. liberals, etc. The “ism” that would be the logical end to continuing to put more and more people out of work via the miracles of technology is called feudalism. We’re working slowly but steadily towards it all the while. Anyone here, besides the would-be lords, barons, dukes, etc. want to give that a go?


#234

[QUOTE=captjacksparrow;192077]
You can’t run the world’s present economic model by selling stuff to a shrinking pool of people that still have enough disposable income to float the whole enterprise. There will never be enough über-rich to manage it. So much bullshit arguing over capitalism vs. communism vs. socialism / conservatives vs. liberals, etc. The “ism” that would be the logical end to continuing to put more and more people out of work via the miracles of technology is called feudalism. We’re working slowly but steadily towards it all the while. Anyone here, besides the would-be lords, barons, dukes, etc. want to give that a go?[/QUOTE]

Not exactly. Feudalism is the ruling class acting as parasite to the uneducated, undernourished working class. The rulers depend on working people for everything they have. In the system you’re talking about, the working class becomes obsolete: the rulers have finally freed themselves from needing the masses at all. Its more like a Diamond Age.

In the magical kingdom of Scandiland, we all become the idle rulers. Here in the new world, we can’t imagine the value of a person who doesn’t work. Working class people don’t know who they are, if they don’t have work. You can tell right away when you meet someone from a working class background, because he wants to know “what do you do?” or he wants to tell you about “what he does.” That’s the root of our anxiety about automation, immigration, and trade. If it threatens our jobs, it threatens our identity. Its a deeply rooted feature of our culture.


#235

Yes there is a lot of truth in what is said in that article, but unfortunately it will not stop the development of autonomous ships, which is well under way: http://gcaptain.com/first-unmanned-and-fully-automated-offshore-vessel-planned-for-2018/?utm_campaign=Roost&utm_source=Roost&utm_medium=push

Don’t worry, you are unlikely to see this vessel in the GoM anytime soon.

BTW; the name Hrønn means “welling wave”.

Question: Will it be propelled by conventional diesel engines, hydrogen fuel cells, or maybe batteries??


#236

Originally Posted by ombugge View Post
Not only ships will be automated. Pretty soon you will be able to “print” autonomous ships as well: http://shipbuilder.nl/site/3d-printi…-game-changer/

Initially the Chief Engineer will be printing the spare parts he needs right there and then as he needs them.
No more expensive stock on board, only a hard drive with 3d drawings of every conceivable machinery part needed. (Until Engineers are sent ashore to do their printing there, that is)

Excuse me, but a printer (or in this case sinterer, probably) doesn’t create mass. You still need to carry the stock onboard. On top of that you need to carry all the quality checking instruments for the newly “printed” part, some of which are very costly indeed. It doesn’t make sense for each ship to carry all that you need to check what we now think of as a caste part (like a piston, for example) to make sure it doesn’t have any unwanted voids or other defects. Or something as microscopically perfect as a turbocharger. Add to that that there is no such thing as a vibration free environment on a ship in transit. There’s not much to be won from printing parts onboard, I think, except the oooh cool factor. It is cool, though. Never-mind, lets do it. And don’t expect me for supper: I have some drawings to print.

Never say ‘no’ when they offer you a cool new toy.

Can someone translate that into latin for me? Its going to be my new moto.


#237

[QUOTE=Emrobu;192118]Excuse me, but a printer (or in this case sinterer, probably) doesn’t create mass. You still need to carry the stock onboard. On top of that you need to carry all the quality checking instruments for the newly “printed” part, some of which are very costly indeed. It doesn’t make sense for each ship to carry all that you need to check what we now think of as a caste part (like a piston, for example) to make sure it doesn’t have any unwanted voids or other defects. Or something as microscopically perfect as a turbocharger. Add to that that there is no such thing as a vibration free environment on a ship in transit. There’s not much to be won from printing parts onboard, I think, except the oooh cool factor. It is cool, though. Never-mind, lets do it. And don’t expect me for supper: I have some drawings to print.

Never say ‘no’ when they offer you a cool new toy.

Can someone translate that into latin for me? Its going to be my new moto.[/QUOTE]

I did post this “tong-in-cheek”.
Contrary to popular belief I do not believe everything I find on the internet and do not think that all predictions of how the future will look is correct. The prediction is that of the author CEES VERKERK, not mine.


#238

It will NEVER happen???: https://gcaptain.com/rolls-royce-launches-strategic-partnership-to-develop-smart-autonomous-ships/
These idiots doesn’t know how difficult it is to operate ships, especially the engine room and all the problems that can crop up, like blocked sanitary system and leaky pipes.


#239

idioter som deg ser ikke hvorfor ingen av oss er begeistret for denne nyeste størst utvikling som dette vil gjøre 90% av sjøfolk over hele verden foreldet betyr at vi vil alle være ute av en jobb slik som gir dritt om roboships bortsett fra deg


#240

For those who does not understand Norwegian, here is the original text used to google translate from:
“idiots like you do not see why any of us are excited about this latest greatest development as this will make 90% of seafarers worldwide obsolete means we will all be out of a job so that gives shit about roboships except you”


#241

“sjøfolk”: I love this word. Jeg lærer alltid nye ting. Tussand takk, herr Fraqrat.