Future of ships


#1

http://gcaptain.com/rolls-royce-reveals-details-on-shore-based-control-rooms-for-operation-of-unmanned-cargo-ships/

Just wanted to hear what some of you old salts have to say about this.

have at it.


Autonomous Ships - Rule 6 & Rule 7
Autonomous ships
Future of Ships; a quick opinion poll
#2

[QUOTE=cpt.Paddy;181705]http://gcaptain.com/rolls-royce-reveals-details-on-shore-based-control-rooms-for-operation-of-unmanned-cargo-ships/

Just wanted to hear what some of you old salts have to say about this.

have at it.[/QUOTE]

Pipe Dream with today’s technology.


#3

Hashed over many times here. Loads of hurdles, from technology to legal to financial and then some. Maybe one day, but not in our lifetimes, not in any appreciable numbers.


#4

Not likely in America, but watch for it being reality for Short Sea shipping in Northern Europe / Scandinavia within a decade.

Rolls Royce and others are not into producing pipe dreams but developing viable technology. They are not spending their R&D money on something that cannot be done in a reasonable time span.
They are in business to make money, not waste time and money on BS. (Leave that to Governments)

We had a thread going here with a lively exchange of opinions, but it got shut down for some reason.(??)


#5

[QUOTE=ombugge;181730]Not likely in America, but watch for it being reality for Short Sea shipping in Northern Europe / Scandinavia within a decade.

Rolls Royce and others are not into producing pipe dreams but developing viable technology. They are not spending their R&D money on something that cannot be done in a reasonable time span.
They are in business to make money, not waste time and money on BS. (Leave that to Governments)

We had a thread going here with a lively exchange of opinions, but it got shut down for some reason.(??)[/QUOTE]

Probably my comment that the only persons on board would be engineers. . . .


#6

I think we would see it in stages like we have with cars. We already have track steering where the ship self adjusts heading and propulsion.

Next will come assisted navigation where the computers suggest a course and speed for traffic avoidance and route planning. No more trial maneuvers, the computer would offer maneuvering options. The human would still approve or reject the choices. Think navigation systems in cars.

Then comes extremus avoidance where the ship would take over to avoid collision or grounding. A human would have to explicitly disapprove to prevent an autonomic action. Some cars do this now with breaking and lane changing.

After that it would be automatic navigation where the computer would do it all and request help only when it can’t solve a problem. The thing about this is ships, like cars and planes, would likely be safer then if they were operated by fatigued or inexperienced humans.

And finally, only after many years, the dangerous, unreliable and error prone humans would be removed completely and a fleet of ships would be navigated safely from a control center in a cheap Third World country.


#7

A bit of jetsam in the water…is it a plastic bottle? A life vest? An immersion suit? Oil slick?

The ship sails on, no one the wiser.

Fuck that.


#8

Why spend many millions on that kind of technology, when you can pluck people from a shanty town in the third world that will do the same job for peanuts.


#9

Once the technology matures and becomes cheap enough it will be a no brainer to replace humans. Just think of the expenses humans cause. Food, fresh water, living space, CHT, travel.

More importantly a computer will eventually do the job better then humans. It will never be tired, drunk or distracted. Some day the human will be a liability and the cost effective approach will be to replace them.


#10

Why always assume that it is “3rd world people” that will be replaced, or will be manning the control center?
Did you see any in the “virtual” control room shown in the video from Finland?

This technology will require highly skilled and experienced people to monitor and take over control remotely, if required.

It is highly unlikely that you will find anybody with a plastic cup full of brown spit walking around in that room.
The people manning it will need not only normal seafaring skills but additional training on the highest level on the technology involved.

As said earlier, it will most likely happen in NW Europe and Scandinavia first, because that is where the technology is being developed.
The people to operate the system will be from there as well. (Or at least living there)


#11

because That’s how business has been done for a long time now.


#12

[QUOTE=cpt.Paddy;181705]Just wanted to hear what some of you old salts have to say about this.

have at it.[/QUOTE]

I just want to say that I absolutely LOATHE THIS SHIT!

glad I will be long gone before this ever becomes common


#13

[QUOTE=ombugge;181730]Not likely in America, but watch for it being reality for Short Sea shipping in Northern Europe / Scandinavia within a decade.

Rolls Royce and others are not into producing pipe dreams but developing viable technology. They are not spending their R&D money on something that cannot be done in a reasonable time span.
They are in business to make money, not waste time and money on BS. (Leave that to Governments)

We had a thread going here with a lively exchange of opinions, but it got shut down for some reason.(??)[/QUOTE]

I am of the opinion that unless you get to a point of having a crew of these posting on gCaptain…

To repair freon leaks - to protect all the fancy electronics, conduct hour based maintenance, etc… there will be a man, or some men on the technical side. A ship is not like the Google car. I agree, very short runs possible (Maybe Aalesund fairy service to Hareid), but that video was not in that context.


#14

#15

John Henry said to his captain,
“A man is nothing but a man,
But before I let your steam drill beat me down,
I’d die with a hammer in my hand,
Lord, Lord,
I’d die with a hammer in my hand.”


#16

The increased cost of technology, sensors, and redundant automation for this remote diagnostics, t/s and repair will have to be cheaper than the crewing costs. I know people are expensive to keep on payroll with benefits and liability, but you can’t get rid of them completely. Maintenance and repair has to be carried out eventually. You’d still have to throw an engine gang onboard every port stop just for preventative maint and repair work, and in this day and age of quick port turnarounds, that would have to be more than a handful of people every time to meet the time crunch…no one can afford to tie up dock space.


#17

If this is really all about cost-savings then why save it with automation when we could be saving a whole lot more money in the fuel bill with technology like the Dykstra Ecoliner?

THIS is where we should be looking for operating cost-savings, not in eliminating the jobs of hard working merchant mariners:


#18

[QUOTE=shipengr;182133]The increased cost of technology, sensors, and redundant automation for this remote diagnostics, t/s and repair will have to be cheaper than the crewing costs. I know people are expensive to keep on payroll with benefits and liability, but you can’t get rid of them completely. Maintenance and repair has to be carried out eventually. You’d still have to throw an engine gang onboard every port stop just for preventative maint and repair work, and in this day and age of quick port turnarounds, that would have to be more than a handful of people every time to meet the time crunch…no one can afford to tie up dock space.[/QUOTE]

To start perhaps a few ships (or one) on a specific run between two specific ports with the terminals set to handle the turn around.


#19

No wonder there is interest in fully automated ships in Northern Europe. This from gcaptain front page…

[I]The captain of a Dutch-flagged cargo ship has found himself in some hot water after running his ship aground while drunk at the German port of Rostock.

The 90-meter long MV Abis Bergen ran aground Saturday evening as it departed Rostock, blocking access to the port. Harbor police boarded the vessel and found that the Master had been drinking. A breathalyzer test revealed the captain had a blood alcohol content of .148%, according to local reports.

The ship was eventually refloated with the help of tugs. Reports say the vessel did sustain some damage in the incident.

The Abis Bergen remained at the port of Rostock as of Monday.

The incident comes one month after another captain got his ship stuck between a bridge and an embankment on Germany’s Main river.

teehee[/I]


#20

[QUOTE=KPChief;182183]No wonder there is interest in fully automated ships in Northern Europe. This from gcaptain front page…

[I]The captain of a Dutch-flagged cargo ship has found himself in some hot water after running his ship aground while drunk at the German port of Rostock.

The 90-meter long MV Abis Bergen ran aground Saturday evening as it departed Rostock, blocking access to the port. Harbor police boarded the vessel and found that the Master had been drinking. A breathalyzer test revealed the captain had a blood alcohol content of .148%, according to local reports.

The ship was eventually refloated with the help of tugs. Reports say the vessel did sustain some damage in the incident.

The Abis Bergen remained at the port of Rostock as of Monday.

The incident comes one month after another captain got his ship stuck between a bridge and an embankment on Germany’s Main river.

teehee[/I][/QUOTE]

There’s no question that the wheelhouse is the human error weak point in shipping, navigation errors are always the largest slice of the accident pie charts.