Foreign Flag Vessels in GOM


#122

Now you’re talking about a Jones Act waiver, which has nothing to do with whether the vessel is American crewed or not (requiring them to have a waiver for their foreign crew).

The biggest problem we have with the foreign vessels here​ on extended contracts is that they get bullshit waivers for their crew and so get around the requirement to hire Americans. If they’re here for a few weeks to maybe even a few months then everyone is fine with them keeping their crew but once they go past a few months they have no valid excuse to not crew the vessel with Americans like the law requires.


#123

[quote=“c.captain, post:120, topic:15195, full:true”]
so WHAT exactly is your point here? that foreign owned vessels have a “right” to work in the GoM or that they are so superior in design, construction or operation that they defacto MUST remain because there are no equivalent US built and manned vessels? [/quote]
No my point is that they are NEEDED because there are none, or to few US vessels capable of performing the most complex tasks efficiently and safely.

So you seams to confirm my question in the above post; such vessel DO require a waiver. just like any foreign vessels do?

That was my argument also. (Nice to see that we agree on something, even how reluctant you are to admit it)

NO!! OCS (EEZ) IS NOT SOVEREIGN TERRITORY, OR TERRITORIAL WATERS PER UNCLOS. Any fishing or commercial activity on the seabed is protected, by the waters are open for free navigation.

Yes you have Laws to protect employment in the OCS (EEZ) but not the right to dictate the crewing of vessels under foreign flags, If vessels are operating in such waters are needed to do tasks for which there are no US flag vessels available. Like the US, many other flag states require that their citizens man vessels under their flag. In many cases this is limited to the Master though. Open registers and FOCs allow even foreign Masters, subject to them complying with IMO STCW’10 minimum COC standard. Since US does NOT approve any foreign COCs some flag states resiprocate. (Norway is NOT one of them)

I have NEVER stated that there aren’t Americans who are capable, but there aren’t enough of them with experience from the type of vessels and work performed by foreign vessels in the GoM.
How can they get experience unless they work on foreign vessel anyhow??

[quote]I cannot count the number of times I have had to listen to Brits, Scots, Dutchmen and Norwegians complaint and bitch about the GoM and Americans to my face! Imagine me coming to the North Sea and doing that in your face? You would want to punch mine to a bloody pulp if I did and I have felt likewise to when faced with such hubris. FUCK ALL OF YOU FOR SUCH ARROGANCE!
[/quote] Sorry to hear that you have been verbally abused.
As to the ARROGANCE bit, I have known a few Americans that would be qualified in the “Champions Leage of Arrogance”. (Of course you would not know anybody like that, would you now???)
I have also met some Americans (and others) that tried to hide their lack of knowledge, experience and incompetence behind a touch mask.

I DO NOT KNOW if McDermott use American or foreign Masters, Officer and Crews when such vessels are working in the GoM or not. Anybody have any first hand knowledge on that??

No work on the Norwegian Continental shelf is NOT restricted to Norwegians, or Norwegian Rigs and boats. It is an open market, with all tenders required to be issued to any EU company who qualify for the task. Several American companies are also present in Norway, especially in the Oil & Gas industry, both offshore and in manufacturing of equipment. (Check out where the NOV drilling equipment on the rigs working deepwater GoM come from)

Any EU Citizen is free to work in Norway, as long as he/she is able to secure work. They can even claim unemployment benefits while looking for work. There are thousands of foreigners working here in all types of jobs, from the most menial to top technical and managerial levels.

Non-EU citizens require a work permit/visa to work onshore or offshore. They also have to have the necessary education and skills required under Norwegian Laws for the job they apply for.
(The required education and training they can receive for free IN NORWAY)

So, you wouldn’t be punched in the face, but you may be laught at if you should make some arrogant statement about American superiority, or exceptionalism.

PS> As said MANY times, I’m NOT a Norwegian nationalist. I have not worked much in Norway, or for Norwegian companies abroad. My knowledge of tings Norwegian are limited to what I have learnt by reading and listening.
I did have some assignments in the North Sea in the 1980’s, but only once since 1990, as Superint./Loadmaster for a Chinese company in 2012, loading a big barge on a small HLV :


#124

As I explained in my previous reply which you ignored, the use of foreign crew as opposed to Americans requires a waiver. That is a completely separate issue from the Jones Act and applies to any vessel working on the US OCS.


#125

Many countries require that any vessel working in their waters hire locals as crew. All the ones I know of allow the master to be any nationality, but the rest of the crew must be local nationals. You obviously don’t know the law very well if you think that’s illegal.


#126

The gist I get in Australia is the stupid union argue for the deckhands and the gov pushes for the Captain only.


#127

this is a forum comprised primarily of American mariners who believe themselves as harmed parties in this debate yet you feel yourself justified to take a vociferous position that for some reason you seem incapable of explaining that it takes foreign vessels manned with foreign mariners to do such specialized work in the offshore. Why are you so steadfastly unwilling to bend a little to so many others when they actually do have statute and regulation on their side but where their own government has not enforced existing laws for their benefit? This is documented truth yet never once have you moderated your writing to suggest that the model of the past is no longer a valid one and that implementing a new model might be in order…perhaps one where the letter of the law is followed by all players. You instead take a position that the status quo is still justified (again, not fully explained why) which I believe is simply in order to piss us all off here for its own sake…does it give you some great gleeful rush to get us all so angered? It must or you wouldn’t keep on your course with this line of debate? Possessing and using power to incense people purely to that end is the definition of an ARROGANT man. Do you have the ability to try to see things through another person’s eyes? Are you willing to even try?

you asked that I might happen to know an arrogant person? well, I can certainly think of one…hmmm?

Now good day to you…

SIR!


#128

When they say Trump will fix it do they mean this thread or the Jones Act?


#129

We need to build a wall around this thread there is no saving it.


#130

I’m still waiting to see if the bug ever grasps the concepts outlined in this thread or not.


#131

As said, I’m a Sunnmoring. (Some here knows what that means)


#132

Yes we understand your point but you are ignoring the FACTS, that we have right type of vessel, necessary equipment and experienced crews.


#133

OK, must be the wrong type of tasks to be performed then??
Why else would there be all them foreign boat there??


#134

Gee, let me find an economist to ask…


#135

Or could it be because your vessels don’t look anything like this?:


Or you mean because of all them cheap, underpaid and over-worked Norwegians manning these vessels?


#136

You don’t seem to realize how expensive it is for an American company to employ Americans. I’m fairly certain that the cost to the foreign company is significantly less for those Norwegians than the equivalent mariners at an American company.


#137

I’m fairly certain you are wrong. Do you know how much it cost to hire Norwegian crews on permanent employment term, send them halfway across the world to work even time on/off, with full pay on their time off?

Sorry I don’t have any number off the cuff for you, but I can assure you IT IS NOT CHEAP.


#138

I doubt the unlicensed personnel are Norwegian. There some savings right there.


#139

If the vessels are NIS (or IOM, GIB, Malta etc.) registered yes.
If NOR flag the crew will be receiving Norwegian wages and be on Norwegian conditions, regardless of nationality.

A few years ago I worked with two NOR flag AHTS servicing an American owned MODU for an American Oilco while operating in deep waters off Malaysia and West Papua.

They had full Norwegian crews per manning requirements + some locals on top of that to satisfy local requirements. (Admittedly, several of the crew members lived in S.E.Asia, Australia or New Zealand)

PS> The vessels worked there for 7 and 10 years respectively with that arrangement. They were terminated when reaching 15 years of age per Malaysian regulations, but was still far better equipped and in better condition than the newer vessels that took over from them.


#140

Looks like the Island Venture is going to work in the GoM for the foreseeable future: http://gcaptain.com/gulf-of-mexico-subsea-alliance-to-utilize-new-island-venture-ocv/?utm_campaign=Roost&utm_source=Roost&utm_medium=push

Anybody know if she is fully manned by American mariners??
If not, what is the nationality of the Officers and crews??


#141

they had better be per 33CFRpart141…51% (or more) American owned or American controlled in the GoM regardless of flag means US manning