ECDIS and Paper Charts


#21

[QUOTE=DeckApe;170125]This discussion always makes me laugh.

There are about 100,000 commercial flights a day around the world and the way people talk about GPS, ECDIS or electronics failure you’d think those airplanes would be falling from the sky with steady regularity.

Dirty little secret: Jumbo jets don’t use paper charts and don’t have navigators. Those have been replaced with gasp electronics![/QUOTE]

I agree with your point in general, mariners tend not to look at the big picture. But I don’t think the analogy with aviation holds up that well. I would think that if an aircraft lost the GPS signal for example likely would not quickly get into trouble like a ship in, say, Singapore Straits might. The maritime side for the most part does not have the equivalent of aviations’s ground control system.


#22

Commercial aircraft that use GPS/WAAS are required to maintain alternative means of navigation in cases of jamming or outage, which although rare, are still possible.


#23

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;170396]I agree with your point in general, mariners tend not to look at the big picture. But I don’t think the analogy with aviation holds up that well. I would think that if an aircraft lost the GPS signal for example likely would not quickly get into trouble like a ship in, say, Singapore Straits might. The maritime side for the most part does not have the equivalent of aviations’s ground control system.[/QUOTE]

But if you lose the gps signal in the Singapore Straits, you can sail on dead reckon on the ECDIS.
And I would think it’s a lot tougher to use dead reckon in a aircraft then a ship.


#24

[QUOTE=Kraken;170881]But if you lose the gps signal in the Singapore Straits, you can sail on dead reckon on the ECDIS.
And I would think it’s a lot tougher to use dead reckon in a aircraft then a ship.[/QUOTE]

I suspect that if you and I discussed this subject it would not be a particularly informed discussion.


#25

[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;170896]I suspect that if you and I discussed this subject it would not be a particularly informed discussion.[/QUOTE]

I have never sailed the Singapore Straits, so you win a discussion on a walkover on experience alone :slight_smile:


#26

London P&I claim that too long interval between fixes are cause for concern:
http://shipmanagementinternational.com/london-pi-club-warning-on-excessive-position-fixing-intervals/


#27

The Coast Guard published Navigation and Vessel Inspection Circular, NVIC 01-16, to provide uniform guidance on what is now considered equivalent to chart and publication carriage requirements.

Combining the available suite of electronic charts available from the U.S. hydrographic authorities and the new Electronic Charting System, or ECS, standards published this past summer by the Radio Technical Commission for Maritime Services, the Coast Guard believes that official electronic charts provide mariners with a substitute for the traditional official paper charts. In addition, this technology will allow mariners to take advantage of information and data to enhance situational awareness during voyage planning and while underway.

“After consultation with our Navigation Safety Advisory Committee, the Coast Guard will allow mariners to use official electronic charts instead of paper charts, if they choose to do so,” said Capt. Scott Smith, chief of the Office of Navigation Systems. “With real-time voyage planning and monitoring information at their fingertips, mariners will no longer have the burden of maintaining a full portfolio of paper charts. Mariners have been requesting the recognition of this capability for some time. When you combine the new expanded Automatic Identification System carriage requirement and the capability that an ECS provides, it should provide a platform to move American waterways into the 21st century.”

This new guidance applies to vessels subject to U.S. chart, or map and publication carriage requirements, as codified in Titles 33 and 46 CFR, and provides a voluntary alternative means to comply with those requirements.

“Together, with our industry and international partners, we are leveraging modern technology to contribute to the safety, security and prosperity of our nation,” said Smith.

View NVIC 01-16 for full details.


#28

Replying to old post, but I think modern airliners still have an inertial nav system: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/43283/do-todays-aircraft-still-have-ins-inertial-navigation-system


#29

Hi All,
I am looking for a set of used paper charts for the Caribbean Sea and the Bahamas. I am a Blue water sailor based out of Fort Myers. Hope you can steer me in the right direction.

Ron Norton


#30

I confirmed the information with my brother who flies airbus’ for United (in descending order): IRS (inertial reference system), GPS, VOR/DME, and finally dead reckoning.


#31

Are you looking to use them for actual navigation? I would be leery of using ‘used’ charts with an unknown quality of maintenance (how well they were corrected…) for navigating even sailboats.

Look here first.
http://charts.noaa.gov/BookletChart/GulfCoastBookletCharts.htm
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/PDFs/PDFs.shtml

These will actually be fairly up to date in regards to corrections. If you find any that fit your needs in the booklet charts section, you can print them on normal sized paper. And, they are free. Well, not free, exactly, but at least our taxpayer dollars go to a few good things.


#32

Was thinking the same thing, but they do make awesome wrapping paper for holiday gifts, so hopefully that’s what they’re for.


#33

ID/altitude/speed/position is also relayed by transponder to ATC and displayed on their screens. (except for well offshore).


#34

nautical charts will be used as back up for chart plotter. I do not go into unfamiliar waters without charts to back up my chart plotter. I also carry a hand held GPS to back up chart plotter.


#35

Are you planning on correcting said paper charts?

I would advise against backing up your digital chart with an uncorrected paper chart. At the very least you should find a reputable chart supplier that can get you a print on demand chart dated near the time you plan this voyage.


Used paper charts wanted
#36

My experience is it’s better to jump in with both feet as the single ECDIS solution requires the trouble and expense of maintaining both systems.


#37

Do you have room for full sized charts? It sounds like you might, but just checking.

I would say the print on demand service somebody else mentioned would be good for that.