What I wrote was with regard to a professional willfully choosing to act as a layperson would. Nothing more, nothing less. I did not mean to imply that you must stand up and begin doing things unilaterally, or that you would do anything without consulting the officers/master on board first. That would make you an idiot.
[QUOTE=Steamer;58498]I
If someone on the boat does not “contribute to the function of the vessel or to the accomplishment of its mission, or have a connection to a vessel in navigation that is substantial in both its duration and its nature” then he has no role or responsibility on or to that vessel.
[/QUOTE]
That quote is from the Jones Act. That is only part of the criteria that was originally asked about. Being a vessels crew is separate and distinct from being a passenger. (paying or guest) The Jones Act only applies to the crew. A passenger cannot ‘make themselves’ a member of the crew (as in OPs worry) So one must understand both sides of the legal equation. A crew is able to be critiqued by the CG post accident. The passengers (even documented mariners) are not subject to the same critique. They may be interrogated or used as witness, but they are not held to the same level of responsibility as the crew.
[QUOTE=Capt. Schmitt;58503]
The new definition of “consideration” does not include nominal gifts such as food,drink,or any other small item. The seven dollar annual registration fee has not been determined to be “consideration” under the new law. Voluntary sharing of expenses for food,fuel,bait or other supplies for the outing does not constitute “consideration.” "[/QUOTE]
Interesting. I hadn’t heard of this before. Too bad it takes an ‘act of congress’ to get such info! The key word seems to be: Voluntary. When it is made part of the decision to proceed it changes everything.
EG. We can go fishing tomorrow IF you chip in with fuel. Did you volunteer or did this become part of the ‘cost of the trip’? A good lawyer would have a field day with this topic.
Thus the previous note…
“This is a VERY convoluted topic.”
[QUOTE=captcore;58449]Hi all
I don’t know if this is the right venue for this question; but I’m curious to hear the opinions of those on the thread.
I have heard that if I am a licensed captain, that I am ultimately responsible for any vessel upon which I am a passenger; irrespective of my capacity on board. In this scenario, assume that this is a recreational vessel and that I am the only licensed person aboard.
Has anyone else heard this? If not, is there, or could there be any truth to this?
Thanks
Corey Mitchell[/QUOTE]
You are not responsible for anything.
Even if something would happen (you were a passenger), and were compelled to act, an action that maybe only a licensed Captain could be aware of, and “peril invited rescue”,you ‘should’ be protected by statute.
So… you’re riding down the road as a passenger in a car, the driver is operating recklessly.
When he gets pulled over, the cop finds that he doesn’t have a license.
You have a valid drivers license, so obviously the cop writes you the ticket.
Just keep one thing in mind if you act as a “good Samaritan” and somehow f things up worse than before…if you live in California you can be held liable. That spin your head more than before?
In the end, if their lawyer is better than yours, you’ll probably lose no matter what.
[QUOTE=cappy208;58497]This has the potential to get long, nasty and complicated.
Here goes. This is from the USCG on 6 pak vessels.
“The law is very specific on this subject. Without getting in too deep, here are a few pertinent parts: ―Uninspected passenger vessel‖ means an uninspected vessel of less than 100 gross tons carrying not more than 6 passengers, including at least one passenger for hire. It further defines ―passenger‖ as ―an individual carried on the vessel except; the owner, the master, or a member of the crew engaged in the business of the vessel who has not contributed consideration for carriage and who is paid for on board services.‖ It also defines ―passenger for hire‖ as ―a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel. So, what is ―consideration‖? Consideration means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity.
Bottom line: If anyone is paying, you are now carrying passengers for hire and can only carry 6 persons on the boat. (Not counting the crew — normally a Master and one deckhand.)”[/QUOTE]
The quote you posted leaves out the last (and most important) part of the definition of Consideration.
46 USC 2101
(5a) “consideration” means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, [B]but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies[/B].
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_46_00002101----000-.html
Corey - I heard of this when I recently upgraded from a six pack to Masters license. The instructor mentioned this several times during the course.
[QUOTE=captcore;58449]Hi all
I don’t know if this is the right venue for this question; but I’m curious to hear the opinions of those on the thread.
I have heard that if I am a licensed captain, that I am ultimately responsible for any vessel upon which I am a passenger; irrespective of my capacity on board. In this scenario, assume that this is a recreational vessel and that I am the only licensed person aboard.
Has anyone else heard this? If not, is there, or could there be any truth to this?
Thanks
Corey Mitchell[/QUOTE]
Lets separate your three questions here:
-
Licensed Captain Hired as Crew - You are crew and have no responsibility beyond that of your position in the crew. Thus if you are working as an AB your responsibilities are that of an AB.
-
Licensed Captain as a Passenger - If you are a passenger you are just that. You are not crew in any regard and have no responsibility or authority to do anything. In an absolute emergency (like abandoning ship) you may offer to assist or simply use your industry knowledge to assist however possible WITHOUT INTERFERING with the actual crew.
-
Licensed Captain on Recreational Vessel - If you are out with a group of friends on someone’s private boat there is a chance you could be held accountable for any serious fuck-ups. Even though the owner of the boat is assumed to be the “Captain” you being the only licensed mariner aboard could take the heat. I would not put it past the USCG and their Admiralty Law Judges to try to raise charges against you and they may succeed. If a group of you go in and rent a boat while on a vacation then you should just assume you are legally the “Captain” because you probably would be treated as such. Therefore, do what others on this thread have suggested and don’t go boating with dumbass friends. If you do not personally know a vast majority of the people you may want to simply not go.
While aboard a couple of Recreational Vessels (including my own) I have been boarded by the CG, the State Police, the State Department of Environmental Protection and the State Conservation Department.
Just routine stuff, no injuries or criminal activity.
They always check everybodies ID’s, run them through NCIC.
Not once did I offer the information I held a license, or did they ever ask me if I held one.
The Authorities use boiler-plate investigation forms.
The USCG Recreational Boating Accident Form doesn’t ask for your license/credential number.
It’s NOT a 2692!!
Go boating. Enjoy yourself. Be safe.
Thank you all for your responses. The discussion on this thread was interesting, and I appreciate all the feedback.
Stay safe.
Corey