Best path to 3rd Mate Unlimited license?

MITAGS-PMI has a 3rd Mate Apprenticeship program that is 28 months and is (I believe) around $35,000.
We currently have cadets with Holland America, Ocean Phoenix and Scripps. Here’s a link but also feel free to DM me if you have any questions.

Yeah the 2/M on my ship convinced me to do an online mba together with him. He said ”with a masters degree and masters license we can walk into any Shoreside job we want!”

15 years and $25k in tuition later he’s still sailing and I’m here still looking for that shoreside job I can “hust walk into” that will pay drillship master wages.

2 Likes

It’s interesting you would say that, because most people seem to say the opposite. I’d prefer to go the hawsepipe route, but everything I’ve read says that the academy is the best choice if you have the means/funds to do so.

If you were 18 or 20 and looking for a degree and a license then I would absolutely say go to an academy. It’s definitely faster than the hawespipe route. If you have the means and funds to do so than sure, go for the Master’s program. I was just trying to raise the point that nobody cares about degrees out here - a lot of hawespipers don’t have any, and until a few years ago cadets from Great Lakes only received an Associates Degree with their license while the other academies receive Bachelors. Does having a Masters give you a leg up on trying to get your first 3/M job? Maybe a little.

If you are motivated and do some online classes before you show up, one can have a 3m license in hand in 2 years.

The important thing at SUNY is to get the classes you need when you need them, especially summer seaterms. If you miss a cruise it will set you back a year.

B[quote=“New3M, post:26, topic:47353”]
. I was just trying to raise the point that nobody cares about degrees out here
[/quote]

I beg to differ. I won’t name any names but my company cares big time. I don’t, the crews don’t, but the office does.

Let me clarify that - I mean that nobody cares about the difference in the degree (Associate vs. Bachelor vs. Master). That you hold one, yes, offices seem to care. Nobody onboard does though.

I don’t know if my degree from a good university (not an academy) has ever helped or hurt during the seagoing job hunt, probably a bit of both. I have never seen any additional pay or respect in a seagoing job. I get paid and treated the same as the 8th grade dropouts.

Having more than the minimum required license is some advantage.

3 Likes

Yo Arizona I was fixin’ to troll on another post you did about a masters program but did a little snooping first and had a change of heart. Look into every program and find one that’s right for you. I had a friend have fun for 4 years then transfer almost every credit over to A&M and walk out with a 3/M shy of 3 years. Any one of the posts on here is sound advice. Best of luck.

1 Like

That can also hurt your job prospects too.

1 Like

That being said, a hawsepiper with a degree as well might be of interest to some companies.

Yes. While it’s usually better to have more than the minimum required qualifications, it’s often disadvantageous to be ”overqualified.” We are damned if we do, and damned if we don’t.

Update: I’ve been accepted to the SUNY Maritime graduate ITM/license program, and will be starting this August. :slight_smile:

Thanks for all your help!

3 Likes

That sounds like a good choice that will give you a lot of options. Best of luck

I’m new to the industry and in a similar situation to the OP. A lot of people have said that it’s not a good idea to hawsepipe, but it looks like the necessary sea time for 3rd Mate Unlimited can be reached in 3-4 years if you’re dedicated enough. This is the same amount of time it would take to graduate from an academy, without all the debt. Even taking it slow shouldn’t take more than 6 years to get the sea time.

The hard part seems to be getting that first OS/AB job on a large enough vessel, and then jumping through all the hoops when you’re ready to get licensed. But you’d be jumping through hoops at an academy too, and spending much more money on the classes. I guess you have to be confident enough to do it all on your own.

Maybe I’m missing something and someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but as long as hawsepiping is still a realistic possibility, it doesn’t seem like such a bad idea.

Where are you from? What experience do you have in small boats? What makes you think that you want to go to sea?

It will take a normal person 6 years to get 1,080 days of sea time and that’s before you factor in the time taken off in order to take the multiple months of required upgrade classes. Most people that try to hawsepipe will probably not have their license until 8 years or more after they start working on a boat.

I don’t know about 3 years but I did it in 4. Granted that’s working 12 hour days so 1.5.

You were probably also working a 28/14 schedule, right?

It was the same over thirty years ago when I had a newly minted hawsepipe license. It was very frustrating but all I can say is that when you get your break. make sure that you are prepared to do good work. And I can begrudgingly see why the companies’ HR will do this. While I did my best to be fully qualified and capable to do my job, many, whether academy or from the forecastle, do not. One Hawsepipe 3rd mate comes to mind, who would admit that he just kept taking the exam until he passed it (after an embarrassing number of attempts!) He brought no skills to the table other than he was quick to call me if he was in doubt, which was appreciated. I felt the same way academy grads must feel when a fellow alumni is sub-standard. I suppose the reasoning for the preference of the HR department for academy over a hawsepiper is that with an academy graduate you know that in the course of the four year program they have at least had academic exposure to the major areas of study for a licensed mariner. .

My experience was that for the most part no one was all that impressed that I was a hawsepiper until I had a considerable amount of experience on my license at the management level.

On the plus side as you are making your way up, if you have your head on straight, you will have a number of opportunities to observe potential hazards and pit falls that can lead to ruin and avoid doing so yourself. The feeling of invincibility that comes with inexperience and youth, that some academy graduates possess, was something I never had while holding a license and I thought this deficiency to be a great asset to me. I did not hesitate to call the Master when in doubt or question an order that I considered dangerous or illegal, and thought better than do a number of ill advised actions because of my second hand experience. You can make your way in this industry, regardless of where you are from, as long as you can safely and efficiently move the cargo.

3 Likes