6000 & 10000 ITC being done away with?


#1

Just saw a post regarding this on the “facespace.” Anybody else hear anything about this? If it’s true, I’m assuming it’s to bring the US more in line with everybody else in the world on STCW/licensing, but it’s going to be chaotic for the big OSV operators in the states.


#2

This should make c.capt very happy as well as the other ringknockers.

The hawsepipe is starting to dry up unless you have tons of money to take classes with.


#3

Meh, by your definition, I’m probably a “ring knocker” too, though I’m not really thrilled about this one like many hawsepipers. What I DO hope this closes, is the end run that several people managed to pull off that got them Master Unlimited while skipping over Chief Mate Unlimited. I have recurring nightmares of mud boat/OSV captains being made masters of “Blue Water” ships.


#4

Can you post again if you see this anywhere legit? Interesting. Thanks


#5

Funny, I know a couple guys currently in the process of pulling off that particular scam.


#6

If someone meets the requirements as prescribed by the CFR’s how is it a “scam”?


#7

[QUOTE=jbtam99;193949]Meh, by your definition, I’m probably a “ring knocker” too, though I’m not really thrilled about this one like many hawsepipers. What I DO hope this closes, is the end run that several people managed to pull off that got them Master Unlimited while skipping over Chief Mate Unlimited. I have recurring nightmares of mud boat/OSV captains being made masters of “Blue Water” ships.[/QUOTE]

If I haven’t said it before, I’ll repeat it here; You Americans have the weirdest system for certifying mariners in the world. (My opinion only)


#8

[QUOTE=Flyer69;193964]If someone meets the requirements as prescribed by the CFR’s how is it a “scam”?[/QUOTE]

It the the way those requirements came to exist that is a scam … it is another GoM way to allow mudboat operators to get cheaper labor.

It is objectionable because letting them slide over to a real ticket is like letting veterinarians do heart surgery on people in a general hospital.


#9

If I learn to fly Cessna’s, I’m cool to fly 747’s too right?


#10

Exactly. I made an enemy by calling out an instructor that an “OSV” limited ticket is not a real ticket and is useless outside the oilfield.

Many operators I think would be very happy if their upper level captains can’t just hop over to drill ships when things pick up and keeping them fat and happy with those OSV licenses was a good/easy way to limit the bleed out that will come when things do pick back up.


#11

[QUOTE=jbtam99;193939]Just saw a post regarding this on the “facespace.” Anybody else hear anything about this? If it’s true, I’m assuming it’s to bring the US more in line with everybody else in the world on STCW/licensing, but it’s going to be chaotic for the big OSV operators in the states.[/QUOTE]

It’s not new, it was in the December 24, 2013 rule-making implementing the 2010 STCW and making other changes to national endorsements.

The 10,000 GT/GRT limit is set by law for as the maximum tonnage of OSVs, it can only be changed by Congress and is still valid.

Under the rules that became effective on March 24, 2014, national endorsements as Mate OSV issued under the new rules do not have tonnage limits, they can be used on any OSV.

National endorsements as Chief Mate (OSV) and Master (OSV) are now to be issued in two tonnage increments, Less Than 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT and for 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT or More. The 3,000 GT or More endorsement will have a tonnage limit determined by the mariner’s service. If at least half of the service was on vessels over 3,000 GT, the tonnage limit will be 10,000 GRT/GT, the maximum size of OSVs (see above). If less than half of the service was on vessels of at least 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT, the tonnage limit will be determined by the tonnage of the vessels served on [See 46 CFR 11.493© and http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=0ab0d2dc84eabddb1ba221445902d155&mc=true&node=se46.1.11_1495&rgn=div8]

Note that any endorsements issued under the old rules remain subject to the tonnage limits appearing in the MMC. For example, if your endorsement as Mate is for not more than 3,000 GT, that tonnage limit still applies until the MMC is renewed and/or the tonnage limit expressly increased. Similarly, if you have Master (OSV) endorsement limited to 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT, that tonnage will remain the maximum for the vessels you can serve as Mate on.

[QUOTE=jbtam99;193949]Meh, by your definition, I’m probably a “ring knocker” too, though I’m not really thrilled about this one like many hawsepipers. What I DO hope this closes, is the end run that several people managed to pull off that got them Master Unlimited while skipping over Chief Mate Unlimited. I have recurring nightmares of mud boat/OSV captains being made masters of “Blue Water” ships.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Flyer69;193964]If someone meets the requirements as prescribed by the CFR’s how is it a “scam”?[/QUOTE]

It’s not an “end run” it is (and has always been) consistent with 46 CFR 11.404(a)(1), this regulation was [U]NOT[/U] changed in the 2013 rule-making. This regulation provides two options for Master Unlimited:

One year of service as chief mate on ocean self-propelled vessels; OR

[U]While holding a license or MMC endorsement as chief mate[/U] of ocean self-propelled vessels of unlimited tonnage, 12 months of service on deck as follows…[includes at least 6 months as chief mate]

Note that only the second option requires the applicant to hold Chief Mate Unlimited, the first does not. Other than the 100 GRT minimum for any unlimited endorsement, there is no tonnage requirement for the “chief mate” service, and “chief mate” will be determined by the definition 46 CFR 10.107, “…the deck officer next in rank to the master and upon whom the command of the vessel will fall in the event of incapacity of the master.”

Note that at the time this regulation was drafted and until the late 1990s, OSVs did not exceed 500 GRT or 3,000 GT, thus it would not have been possible to obtain an endorsement for greater than 5,000 GT based solely on service on OSVs.


#12

This stuff gives me a headache. Aside from making my head hurt I will now wonder just what the F the old man really knows on what few ships I have remaining to step aboard.


#13

Well, if you consider that no matter what path you take to get there, the academy grad and the hawsepiper are both going to have to take and pass the same exam.
As Anchorman has said in previous posts.

Add to that the mandatory coursework now required for CM/M Unlimited, and this is not a giveaway or a scam.


#14


#15

[QUOTE=Flyer69;193984]Well, if you consider that no matter what path you take to get there, the academy grad and the hawsepiper are both going to have to take and pass the same exam.
As Anchorman has said in previous posts.

Add to that the mandatory coursework now required for CM/M Unlimited, and this is not a giveaway or a scam.[/QUOTE]

Oh, see that was not obvious to me. But I just realized I don’t really need to understand this, I just need to stop reading the posts about it. I will now go back to my world where s$&t can actually flow uphill.


#16

[QUOTE=Flyer69;193984]Well, if you consider that no matter what path you take to get there, the academy grad and the hawsepiper are both going to have to take and pass the same exam.
As Anchorman has said in previous posts.

Add to that the mandatory coursework now required for CM/M Unlimited, and this is not a giveaway or a scam.[/QUOTE]

Ah, well I guess as long as the paperwork is in order nothing can go wrong, right?

We can only hope that the people who hire masters just look at the candidate’s resume and chuckle as they toss it in the trash where it belongs.

Like I wrote before, veterinarians doing human heart surgery … only in the world of the CG sucking up to the coonass mafia.


#17

A guy told me that the acronym “ITC” stands for “It’s Total Crap”.


#18

Why do y’all even care what happens down here? According to what I read on this forum no company outside the bayou will hire anyone who is career oilfield. Sounds like it’s not about what’s on his MMC and more about the resume.

Show of hands for unlimited license people who worked on mud boats that came for the money and left when it dried up?

Show of hands for the same group who will come back when and if the money ever goes up again?

I notice not as many hands in the air.

Out of the group that would come back for money and even time how many will ONLY work for a drilling company and not a mud boat company?

Wow looks like drilling wins in a landslide for those looking for boy band money and a life of leisure.

So ummmm…who’s gonna work on the OSV’s?


#19

[QUOTE=Fraqrat;193996]Sounds like it’s not about what’s on his MMC and more about the resume.[/QUOTE]

Of course it is Frag, we already know that the CG hands out unlimited master’s tickets to mudboat drivers and maybe even fisheries observers so that proves the MMC isn’t worth much more than a TWIC. The only thing that speaks to experience and qualifications is a resume with discharges and references from real people.


#20

Is it okay with you if I use mudboat chief mate time to get an unlimited masters ticket if I promise to only drive yachts?

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